00:00:00:10 - 00:00:12:22 Speaker 1 This is Dave Clifton conducting an interview for the Speedway at Wimbledon Stadium oral History Project on the 20th of April, 2026. Good morning. Could you tell us your name? 00:00:12:24 - 00:00:14:02 Speaker 2 Seth Perkin. 00:00:14:03 - 00:00:15:10 Speaker 1 And where were you born? 00:00:15:11 - 00:00:16:05 Speaker 2 Two thing. 00:00:16:07 - 00:00:17:13 Speaker 1 And what year were you born? 00:00:17:14 - 00:00:18:13 Speaker 2 1991. 00:00:18:14 - 00:00:20:13 Speaker 1 And what did your parents do for a living? 00:00:20:18 - 00:00:25:07 Speaker 2 So my mom worked in HR and my dad was an accountant. 00:00:25:09 - 00:00:36:09 Speaker 1 Okay, so I wanted to talk to you about your involvement with Wimbledon Stadium Speedway and start with the early days. What? Years did you go to Speedway at Wimbledon Stadium. 00:00:36:10 - 00:00:38:21 Speaker 2 2002 to 2005. 00:00:38:23 - 00:00:43:12 Speaker 1 And can you tell us about your first visit to the Speedway? Who did you go with and what does he like. 00:00:43:14 - 00:01:10:00 Speaker 2 To Wimbledon? Yeah. So it would have been press and practice back in 2002. It was a school day, so I remember we got here late and because of the rain, it was it was canceled. But it was my first visit into the stadium. You know, having grown up near the area and lived in Tooting as well. You know, we often used to drive past the stadium, and I was always sort of struck by like the size of it. 00:01:10:02 - 00:01:32:21 Speaker 2 But yeah, that first sort of moment in the, in the grandstand just being, you know, sort of wow, this is, this is huge. And it was the first time I've been in a speedway stadium like like that, that was that big. And yeah, it was it was a unique a unique experience, despite the fact that I didn't see any bikes running on the on the present practice because it got rained, got rained off. 00:01:32:21 - 00:01:41:15 Speaker 2 But yeah, it was a really, really sort of unique, unique memory that I've got. I've still remember being there with dad, just sort of looking and taking it all in. 00:01:41:17 - 00:01:46:10 Speaker 1 So you had quite a family history of speedway, then your father took you. Can you talk about that? 00:01:46:12 - 00:02:09:16 Speaker 2 Yeah. So I don't really remember my my first visit to a speedway track, but I'm told it was Peterborough for the, for the fours, which was a, which was a big annual speedway meeting that happened that happened every year in the second division. And then because growing up in London there was no speedway track. We used to go down to, to Eastbourne every sort of Saturday night. 00:02:09:18 - 00:02:30:00 Speaker 2 You know, Eastbourne and Wimbledon have got a sort of shared history that when the promotion closed in 1991, they, they moved down to Eastbourne to become the Eastbourne Dons. So we used to go to Eastbourne every week and you know, you're seeing riders like Martin Dugard and Dean Barker and David Norris and you know, sort of really, really good British riders, you know. 00:02:30:05 - 00:02:34:24 Speaker 2 Yeah. I really used to enjoy going down to going down to Eastbourne every week. 00:02:35:01 - 00:02:45:06 Speaker 1 Okay. And can you tell us about the experience of coming to the speedway Wimbledon Stadium. Can you describe the stadium? 00:02:45:08 - 00:03:04:24 Speaker 2 Just massive. You know, I remember talking to a rider, Simon Stead, who wrote in the in the test match that they held here in 2003, and he, he sort of said it was just it was massive for a, for a venue in British speedway at the time because, you know, they usually quite small, they're out of town. 00:03:05:00 - 00:03:40:12 Speaker 2 Whereas Wimbledon, it was fully enclosed. It had two grandstands, you know, the bends were fully, fully covered. It was just a very, very unique venue for modern day speedway in the in the 2000. You know, the fact that it had two glass fronted grandstands, it was just incredibly unique venue for British Speedway. The fact that it was also in London as well, I think is was something special, because the last time there were speedway in London before that was back in, well, Hackney closed in 1996, so it was a real sort of boost for the sport as well to have such a, you know, a great venue to host Speedway. 00:03:40:14 - 00:03:45:20 Speaker 1 Okay. Was there a particular place you'd like to watch from? 00:03:45:22 - 00:04:06:03 Speaker 2 I used to watch from just in front of the referee's box all the time, you know, thinking the first season I watched from the pit bend, but then started to move towards the towards the referee's box and used to set, you know, on my own. I was quite lucky that I used to get to sit, you know, just in front of the referee's box. 00:04:06:03 - 00:04:14:23 Speaker 2 And there was like different things. You used to hear the referee, you know, on the phone and stuff, which was, which was pretty cool. But yeah, I've always liked to watch from the, from the straight. 00:04:15:00 - 00:04:21:18 Speaker 1 And you were here during this sort of revival years. Was it busy where what was it ended up like? 00:04:21:20 - 00:04:49:11 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, you know, always used to depend, you know, certain teams you used to get they used to get higher attendance with certain teams versus versus others. I think Command and Dragons, that was always in like, you know, in the far side of Wales didn't really get too many people. But you know, it was between 800 to, you know, above 1000 on average for, for the however many like 4 or 5 seasons that they were here. 00:04:49:15 - 00:05:03:08 Speaker 2 So it was, it was, it was decent for, for speedway. You know, the other thing is that they ran at the the lowest level of the conference conference league. So you know, it was a work in it was a work in progress to sort of try and build the build the crowd up. 00:05:03:10 - 00:05:09:13 Speaker 1 Okay. Can you tell us about the commercial aspects? We're merchandise programs or was it food and drink available? 00:05:09:15 - 00:05:39:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. So unfortunately, until the gray wanted to change one of the bars, you know, they women had the best tracks. Track shop in Speedway. It was a big glass fronted shop up on the like the first floor of the grandstand, you know, flags, shirts, jackets, hat, scarfs, badges, all sorts were, were available. You know, started off pretty plain. 00:05:39:09 - 00:05:59:06 Speaker 2 Was a, was a red jumper which, you know, probably that bad. That's come back into fashion now. But you know, and then it started to get a little bit more fashionable with the, with the black jackets, but you know has got a very unique yellow star that was there that was sort of pride of place on anything that, you know, you wore. 00:05:59:07 - 00:06:22:23 Speaker 2 So so yeah, that was the that was the track shop. And you know, we speedway, you need a program. It's the way of keeping up with the meeting because, you know, whereas like in other sports, football, rugby, whatever it is, it's pretty easy to, to follow and stuff speedway at score per race. So you need to know, you know, 51423 all bonus points all that. 00:06:22:23 - 00:06:44:22 Speaker 2 So you know programs are like a staple feature for a for a Speedway fan. But every week every meeting. So you know I think think it was like 2004 I might might be wrong. But you know Wimbledon one like program year as well for the Conference League which was which was a pretty cool sort of honor for, for the club as well. 00:06:44:24 - 00:06:53:20 Speaker 1 Okay. Can you describe a typical race night from your experience? How did and Night and fold? 00:06:53:22 - 00:07:04:00 Speaker 2 Usually it would be non taking me from from Worcester Park because it would always be like after school. So she'll drop me off on the way on the way home. 00:07:04:02 - 00:07:08:20 Speaker 3 Can you turn it off. No no no don't stop recording. It's not. Just turn your phone off. 00:07:08:22 - 00:07:10:09 Speaker 1 So can we just running around? 00:07:10:09 - 00:07:10:13 Speaker 3 Yeah. 00:07:10:14 - 00:07:11:16 Speaker 1 No question. 00:07:11:18 - 00:07:20:01 Speaker 3 You're still recording coat? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Try to move. Yeah, please. 00:07:20:03 - 00:07:22:23 Speaker 2 The joys of modern technology takes you, like, five minutes. 00:07:22:23 - 00:07:26:08 Speaker 3 Turn it off. Yeah. Okay. Ask that one again. Sorry about that. 00:07:26:10 - 00:07:29:24 Speaker 1 So could you describe your experience of a typical race night? 00:07:30:02 - 00:07:54:02 Speaker 2 Yeah. So you drop me off at the stadium because there would always be a school night and dad would already be here. Sort of, working behind the scenes of, you know, getting whatever needed admin, whatever else used to get here for about sort of 630. Used to have a little look in, in the pits and see the riders on unpack. 00:07:54:04 - 00:08:16:07 Speaker 2 Used to go up to the sort of referee's box, have like a little walk around the stadium. Then when the bikes used to used to start up again, sort of, you know, being close to the atmosphere because where the pits were in the, in the stadium, it was sort of set back on the, within the grandstand in an area that like sort of had a bit of a sloping hill so nobody could see it, see anything from there anyway. 00:08:16:07 - 00:08:41:24 Speaker 2 So that's where the pits were and that sort of reverberation, because it was, you know, you had the, the grandstands kept the noise within. So you know, that sort of like deep rumbling of 14, 15, 16 motorbikes being warmed up at at the same time is is quite a unique thing to experience. And then used to just sort of wander down to, to the referee's box and sort of sit there and and watch, watch the racing unfold. 00:08:42:05 - 00:09:09:12 Speaker 2 And the only thing with Wimbledon, you never got the greatest view, unfortunately, because, you know, speedway is a unique sport that you can usually sit quite close to the action. But obviously at Wimbledon you had a greyhound track, a stock car track and then a speedway track, so you were looking from quite, quite a distance and then, you know, because it was where they held the Greyhound Derby, you also had the nice flowerbeds and things like that. 00:09:09:12 - 00:09:15:15 Speaker 2 So, you know, you never got the greatest view, but it was still somewhere where I used to love watching Speedway from. 00:09:15:17 - 00:09:24:19 Speaker 1 Okay. Thank you. If we talk about your experience of being a fan, can you tell us about any riders or teams that you followed? 00:09:24:21 - 00:09:58:03 Speaker 2 So with Wimbledon, you know, bars, Burroughs was probably the rider that, you know, was was the most popular or one of the most popular Wimbledon riders of the of the sort of revival he came second to think in 2004, in the, in the Conference League riders championship boss was a was all action. He was very exciting. I think buzz wouldn't even be able to explain how we made some of the moves that he did. 00:09:58:05 - 00:10:23:16 Speaker 2 I remember one sort of one race where he he was in third, trailing behind, you know, the two opposition riders, and he just sort of went they just sort of went behind the flowerbed and he came out first and nobody quite knew what how he made that move. But you know, buzz was very, very popular rider. I think that that team in 2005 was a very, very good, very, very good team. 00:10:23:16 - 00:10:42:24 Speaker 2 They were they were unlucky to lose the title. They came second, they got the most bonus points. So well they got every bonus point from every team. So they one on aggregate against every other team, they were just unlucky. They had a bad result in Newport sort of at the end of August. I think it was where they lost against a team that they should have won. 00:10:43:03 - 00:11:08:01 Speaker 2 But yeah, you know, I think it was Scott James and Grant McDonald bars. Rob Matt. Right. You know those those are the riders that that really, you know, performed well during that time. Ross Smith was was the other reserve. They were just unlucky. But you know we had some good good times at Wimbledon. They won the the Conference League pairs in 2004, 2005. 00:11:08:01 - 00:11:31:07 Speaker 2 When that when that was was running first it was Barry Evans and Buzz and then it was buzzing and Scott James. So there was there was some goods. Good times at Wimbledon. I mean, you know, I know that lots of Wimbledon fans are still upset about losing the 2005 and they blame still blame one of my refereeing colleagues for the decisions that were made at Oxford. 00:11:31:09 - 00:11:41:19 Speaker 2 I have explained to to buzz why he was right to be disqualified. But, you know, I still don't think he really buys it, but it is what it is. 00:11:41:21 - 00:11:47:04 Speaker 1 Okay. Can you tell us about the different teams in Wimbledon? Were the A-Team and B teams at different levels? 00:11:47:05 - 00:12:18:22 Speaker 2 No. So Wimbledon Road at the the lowest league of British speedway at the time. So the Conference League or what's now called the National Development League within speedway. The way that the the way that speedway is now, it's slightly changed. So it's much more development league. But back in 2002, 2005, there were a mix of standards. So you had sort of more experienced riders that had ridden speedway for a good number of years, and then sort of the up and coming junior riders. 00:12:18:22 - 00:12:41:09 Speaker 2 So it was a much more sort of mixed field, and that created quite exciting racing because, you know, you did have the sort of old hands, the riders like bars. And John Armstrong, he used to be at Milton Hall and things like that that, you know, had ridden at the Elite League or then at the Elite League, which was the top league, and then sort of, you know, were still helping and developing younger riders coming through. 00:12:41:10 - 00:13:05:23 Speaker 2 So, so yeah, Wimbledon has said riding the third, the third tier, but they were riding teams like second teams as well from different clubs that had like sort of an elite league. So Wolverhampton or Swindon and then sort of Second Division teams that also had a junior team. So like Edinburgh had their junior team, Armadale and Newcastle and things like this. 00:13:05:23 - 00:13:13:12 Speaker 2 So you know yeah there was a fair few teams. So some junior teams and some standalone teams. 00:13:13:14 - 00:13:15:05 Speaker 1 Okay. 00:13:15:07 - 00:13:21:22 Speaker 3 Some water or something that you need to clear. 00:13:21:24 - 00:13:30:18 Speaker 3 As I said. 00:13:30:20 - 00:13:35:11 Speaker 1 So how accessible were the riders before and after matches. Were you able to meet the riders? 00:13:35:12 - 00:14:01:07 Speaker 2 Yeah. Very accessible. One of the one of the good things about speedway is the accessibility of of riders, even even now, you know, I mean, before the meetings, probably a bit more of a challenge because, you know, riding a 500 cc motorbike without breaks is, you know, I think they probably need to mentally prepare. But after the meeting, you know, they'd all be in the bar and you could have a chat to them. 00:14:01:09 - 00:14:24:12 Speaker 2 You know, everybody was happy to take pictures, sign autographs and whatever else. And I think that's one of the great things about about speedway that riders are accessible. And yeah, you know, I can remember many nights like after meetings in the bar, you know, where all the riders sort of mingle with fans and things like this. So yeah, very, very accessible. 00:14:24:14 - 00:14:29:19 Speaker 1 And what were the fans like? What was the general demographic of a fan of the. 00:14:29:21 - 00:14:58:12 Speaker 2 I think it's mixed. I mean, Speedway has got an older demographic group as fans, and I think even in the in the 2000 that was probably still apparent, but there was still a good mix. I mean, London's, you know, quite a cosmopolitan city, but that didn't always transfer to to speedway fans. You know, speedway fans tend to be white sort of middle to older ages working to middle class. 00:14:58:12 - 00:15:11:05 Speaker 2 And, you know, Wimbledon didn't really escape or didn't do anything different. But, you know, it was probably a little bit more mixed in the early 2000 with with speedway fans. 00:15:11:10 - 00:15:15:24 Speaker 1 And when were a foreign riders in the stadium, did they bring their own families with them? 00:15:16:01 - 00:15:42:12 Speaker 2 So the only time that in the later years that Wimbledon had foreign riders would have been when the test match was on. So 2003, when it was Great Britain under 21 versus Sweden under 20, once again, you know, the fans would have been the normal Wimbledon fans, maybe a few, you know, extra. But there wasn't really any Swedish fans that came over for that. 00:15:42:14 - 00:15:43:13 Speaker 3 Okay. 00:15:43:15 - 00:15:47:14 Speaker 1 Were there any specific rivalries with other teams? 00:15:47:16 - 00:16:22:04 Speaker 2 Mildenhall was, you know, during the Conference League era, was was one Rye House was was another. I'm sure you know, before my time there was like rivalries like Hackney, White City, Wembley and and and whatever, you know the other London teams. But you know in the later years Rye House, Boston Barracuda Braves as well was was another rivalry and and Millard and Hall those meetings were usually quite feisty Weymouth as well just usually because the racing was quite close that these were usually quite good teams. 00:16:22:04 - 00:16:25:21 Speaker 2 And, you know, there was a bit of a bit of tension. 00:16:25:23 - 00:16:34:04 Speaker 1 Okay. And so how important was Wimbledon Speedway in your social life? 00:16:34:06 - 00:16:57:11 Speaker 2 Not not really. You know, none of my friends have really understood why I like Speedway, why I'm still involved. And you know why I travel to, you know, up and down the country to to still watch and still referee. So not particularly I mean, it was much more a family, a family thing. It's been such an important part of my family's life. 00:16:57:11 - 00:17:19:10 Speaker 2 It's, you know, it shapes like most conversations I have with my dad. You know, he asks, you know, what I'm doing with refereeing and stuff, and, you know, we talk about it. But, yeah, in terms of my social life, you know, Wimbledon. Not really. You know, nobody's not many of my friends have understood my passion and love for speedway. 00:17:19:12 - 00:17:25:18 Speaker 1 So how did your Wimbledon friends is were a wider speedway community that you're part of? 00:17:25:19 - 00:17:47:00 Speaker 2 Yeah. So at the minute I'm still a referee. So referee all levels of speedway in this country. So you know, I'm very friendly with, with a few of my refereeing colleagues and then sort of outside of that, you know, I've got a few people they'll chat to sort of regularly, whether that's at Bellevue or any sort of track up and down, up and down the country. 00:17:47:06 - 00:18:01:22 Speaker 2 And we talk about speedway and, and yeah, all the problems that goes on within the, within the sport. So, you know, the conversations can be quite long but also quite boring. So it's, you know, it's one of those, one of those things. 00:18:02:01 - 00:18:05:09 Speaker 3 Yeah. 00:18:05:11 - 00:18:17:16 Speaker 1 I think you mentioned briefly your, your Wimbledon speedway heroes. Can you tell us about was there a particular memorable night for you at Wimbledon that you remember? 00:18:17:18 - 00:18:44:05 Speaker 2 I mean, both the Conference League pairs victories were, you know, were very, very special in 2004. It was it was a weeknight. So, you know, under the floodlights where they beat Mildenhall. You know, that was that was a that was a good night, Mildenhall, where I think they might have won the league that year. That was an, you know, an important night, a special night. 00:18:44:05 - 00:19:04:22 Speaker 2 And then again in 2005 when they won the pairs on a Sunday afternoon. You know, it was a long, long day. There was there was an issue with the program. The track was dusty and it just seemed to go on and on and on and on. But again, yeah, for for Wimbledon to win the run off to be Oxford. 00:19:04:24 - 00:19:27:16 Speaker 2 You know that was a, that was a special night. And then you know just other meetings like where they beat sort of. I think it was Weymouth towards the towards the end of the season, Weymouth had a very, very good team that Lewis Bridger, who was a, you know, hailed as sort of the next world champion but was a very, very good Conference League rider, Dan Gifford as well. 00:19:27:16 - 00:19:39:12 Speaker 2 And they sort of just got through. 4644. Those were special nights and sort of special memories at Wimbledon. 00:19:39:14 - 00:19:47:15 Speaker 1 Okay. And can you tell me about speedway nights? Would any other entertainment in the stadium? 00:19:47:17 - 00:20:07:22 Speaker 2 Not really. I mean, occasionally if it was a big meeting, they'd have like a brass band or things like that. But, you know, it's just like, you know, most spawn events, you were just there for, you know, the racing, you know, the music or, or whatever would be on in the background. But, you know, it was just mainly mainly for the racing. 00:20:07:22 - 00:20:29:20 Speaker 2 I think, you know, speedway is unique in the fact that while you're there for the evening, you're potentially only watching 15 minutes of, of sport. So, you know, for most people it's filled with like conversations and catching up with friends and, and all of that. So, yeah. So the only, the only sort of things were like brass bands sometimes before the meeting. 00:20:29:22 - 00:20:40:15 Speaker 1 Okay. And you had quite a few jobs within Speedway. You were a mascot. You kept score and you're a referee. Can you tell me about your different roles and how you got those jobs? 00:20:40:16 - 00:21:16:20 Speaker 2 Yeah. So the mascot in was just like, I only did that a few times, you know, that was something you, you, you know, you could pay for and walk the team out, which was which was pretty cool, especially when you're sort of sort of younger. But then with Wimbledon, we did quite a lot, you know. So, so 2004, I was asked, I was about 13, I was asked if I could help out on the doing the scoreboard, because Wimbledon must be one of the only teams in the country that had an electronic scoreboard. 00:21:16:20 - 00:21:36:22 Speaker 2 So I swapped with another young lad to to do the scoreboard when he wasn't there. So used to do that a few times and sit in the referee's box. And you know, you used to hear the, the conversations that used to go on and you know, I remember there was one race with buzz. I think it was drawn. 00:21:36:22 - 00:22:09:10 Speaker 2 Armstrong. And, you know, they came across a line so close. But dad's a dad, Ian, who used to do the center green announcing as well, sort of said, oh, I think buzz just got that. And there was a very famous referee called Frank Hebden who called down and sort of warned my dad with a potential massive fine for inciting violence in the crowd or a riot, which, you know, always sort of makes me laugh to this day, considering the vast amount of pensioners that were that were in the crowd sometimes. 00:22:09:10 - 00:22:32:24 Speaker 2 But I used to hear those conversations, well, in the scoreboard, which was, which was quite cool. And even now some of the referees that, you know, I used to sit in on when I was doing the scoreboard are like my colleagues now, which is quite cool. The other things that we used to do so used to go around selling like speedway stars on, on race nights, sometimes to fans. 00:22:32:24 - 00:22:57:15 Speaker 2 And, you know, we also used to leaflet around like London as well or around the local area rather, you know, sort of highlighting the Wimbledon was here and trying to just gain as much promotion as possible for, for the sport and for, for Wimbledon in general. And, you know, those experiences have helped me to become a to become a referee as well. 00:22:57:15 - 00:23:28:20 Speaker 2 So I've been on the the Speedway Control Bureau's panel of referees. This is my seventh or eighth season as a referee or refereed the top league final last year on TV, which was which was a very proud moment for me. You've refereed the British Under 21 final, British Under 19 final and those sort of, you know, part of the early experiences at Wimbledon have been in the box hearing the conversations, appreciating what it's like from a promoter side. 00:23:28:20 - 00:23:34:00 Speaker 2 All those things have sort of helped me shape the referee that I am today. 00:23:34:02 - 00:23:42:13 Speaker 1 Okay. And so when you were working at Wimbledon Racetrack on the scoreboard, can you talk us through what you would do on a typical race day? 00:23:42:15 - 00:24:08:05 Speaker 2 Yeah, so usually I'd be like told five minutes before the start of the meeting, could I go up and and do it? So I make my way sort of through the grandstand, up the up the staircase until you got to like these sort of like little glass conservatories, which were really, really low down and gave you a rubbish view of the, of the track. 00:24:08:05 - 00:24:33:22 Speaker 2 And it was, you know, very little into, you know, pretty much every reference. Well, every referee's box in this country and Wimbledon still is up there with the worst. But then, you know, I grabbed my program and then you start filling in, filling in the heats. You know, it wasn't it wasn't perfect. You know, the technology was was pretty bad then for doing this scoreboard. 00:24:33:23 - 00:24:56:05 Speaker 2 But then you just sort of in communication with the, with the referee and the timekeeper to make sure that you're filling in the information and you sit there for the 15 heats, filling it all in. You know, r b w yellow y for, for the race order and things like that. Putting in the times, making sure everything was correct and and things like that. 00:24:56:06 - 00:25:15:14 Speaker 2 You know race sponsors as well. It always used to make me laugh because I used to like they had some graphics that you could put up as well. So like they're off, which, you know, I always used to like putting up when the tapes went up, even though it was of greyhounds rather than speedway riders. But being 13, I thought, well, that's pretty cool. 00:25:15:16 - 00:25:33:12 Speaker 2 So yeah. So that used to be a typical race night of just going in, sitting in there, sitting in the referee's box and just just trying to be quiet, you know, because I think when you are that young, you know, you're a little bit in awe of, you know, older people and you know, they're working and they've got an important job. 00:25:33:12 - 00:25:41:01 Speaker 2 So yeah, just trying to be as quiet as I can and just hopefully not getting it wrong for everybody to see. 00:25:41:03 - 00:25:54:10 Speaker 1 Okay. Can we talk about how Wimbledon changed over time? I mean, you were only here during the revival years, but was it did it change during that time? 00:25:54:12 - 00:26:31:21 Speaker 2 I think slightly. I mean, there was there was a shift between 2000 and 4, 2005. So 2004 was a really, really poor year for rain offs. I think, you know, the PLC lost about 25,000 pounds because the amount of rain offs that they had. So there was a change in the ownership. So I think the PLC had ten directors there and then the majority of them wanted out I think seven, no, 8 or 9 wanted out. 00:26:31:22 - 00:26:57:02 Speaker 2 So in 2005 the the consortium was made up of Ian Perkins and my dad Dingle Brown and Perry Atwood. I think, you know, at that time, you know, there was a there was a little bit more ambition in, in results of what Wimbledon wanted. You know, they've been in the Conference League since 2002. So you know, there was a little bit more ambition. 00:26:57:04 - 00:27:19:16 Speaker 2 And I think they just became, you know, more aware of, of promotion and, you know, the limits of what they could do and the sort of tension and conflicts that existed within, within British speedway at the time. So I think they became a little bit more street smart of what they could do, you know, in terms of like the architecture or the infrastructure. 00:27:19:17 - 00:27:38:22 Speaker 2 You know, I think the, the Miller stand started it closed. So, you know, it was sort of confined to the, to the grandstand and the, the bends frame for of where you could, where you could watch from. And, but for me it was more women would have started to become more ambitious on the track. They started to get results. 00:27:38:22 - 00:27:54:02 Speaker 2 They you know, they recruited a, you know, strong rider, strong teams towards that, that last year that made a made a significant difference. And as I said, they were unlucky in in 2005 not to to to win the title. 00:27:54:04 - 00:28:04:23 Speaker 1 And talking about the closure, how did the closure of Wimbledon Speedway affect you as a fan and as a school keeper? And maybe how do you think your family as well? 00:28:05:00 - 00:28:38:20 Speaker 2 It was a sad time, you know, you know, I remember the meeting that dad had before one of the meetings before a speedway meeting, and he was like, that's that's it. There's there's no chance of of women and running here, here next year. You know, they don't really didn't really want the stadium. It was sad. You know, it was the last time that there was going to be a speedway meeting in London potentially, which, which turned out to be turned out to be true. 00:28:38:22 - 00:29:02:03 Speaker 2 You know, it was a we didn't go to speedway after that for a, for a long time. Well, for about 4 or 5 years until we went to, to Cardiff for the Grand Prix, didn't go to speedway, didn't really follow it as much. Lost the interest, you know, because when you're that close to something and you love it and you're that passionate, you know, to go and watch another team, it's just it's just not the same. 00:29:02:09 - 00:29:24:05 Speaker 2 So it was you know, it was an upset in time I think for the sport in general, general as well. You know, it did have a have a bit of a knock on effect. You know, there's lots of reasons why speedway is in the position that it is. And I'm not saying that the loss of Wimbledon was, you know, was was a huge factor. 00:29:24:05 - 00:29:50:17 Speaker 2 But to lose a sport in base with in London has been detrimental to the sport. You know, every you know, mainstream sport has a base in the Capital Speedway dozen. And you know from when you could go to like speedway every night of the week in London to lose in its final one was, you know, was was a blow for the sport as well. 00:29:50:19 - 00:29:58:20 Speaker 2 So it's sad. You know, it was it was a disappointing thing all around, you know, personally within my family and I think for the sport as a whole. 00:29:58:22 - 00:30:04:13 Speaker 1 So how did it feel to go to Wimbledon for the last time to watch your final race? 00:30:04:15 - 00:30:26:15 Speaker 2 Yeah. Just sad, you know? I mean, it was a bit of a fairytale story with, with buzz winning the laurels, you know, being a sort of like modern day Wimbledon hero, which was really nice, but it was just sad, you know, to know that you're not, to know that there's not the possibility of coming back, you know. 00:30:26:17 - 00:30:46:13 Speaker 2 Yeah, it was, it was I think it was just a bit surreal, you know, that that we're not we're not going to be here next year, you know, and there was a lot of sort of looking around for other stadiums and other venues during the winter. But nothing, sort of nothing came off. But yeah, you know, it was hard. 00:30:46:15 - 00:30:54:18 Speaker 1 Okay. And looking back, what did Wimbledon speed mean to you personally? 00:30:54:20 - 00:31:13:04 Speaker 2 It meant a lot. You know, for a long time I was an Eagle supporter because it was the only club that I sort of sort of knew. And then, you know, I remember when dad saying, you know, when we're going to reopen and stuff, it was, you know, it was it was exciting. And, you know, Wimbledon became something that, you know, my family was connected with. 00:31:13:04 - 00:31:32:07 Speaker 2 So it meant, meant everything in terms of, in terms of sort of speedway to, to watch, you know, to be involved with, to, you know, to meet the riders to, to get to know them and things like that. It was, you know, it was everything. It was, you know, it was a special place. As I said, it was a it was a big stadium. 00:31:32:09 - 00:31:35:17 Speaker 2 So yeah, it meant meant a lot. 00:31:35:19 - 00:31:46:06 Speaker 1 Okay. And is there anything you'd like to tell us that we haven't covered yet? Is there any other observations on on the speedway in. 00:31:46:08 - 00:32:08:14 Speaker 2 I think, you know, it was. And I'm sure you might get this as well. But, you know, the walk up the tunnel from, you know, the car park up into the pits to the track was was special. You know, I've gone to a lot of speedway tracks. I've walked like the tracks gone through like the pits and things. 00:32:08:14 - 00:32:29:23 Speaker 2 But I don't think anything within Speedway has, has met that as much, that the only thing I can compare it with is the Grand Prix, when they used to hold it. Cardiff, when you used to walk up, you know, the tunnel there to go into the bowl. Wimbledon was very, very lucky that because it was enclosed you managed when you walked up that tunnel, you sort of became into, you came into the bowl. 00:32:29:24 - 00:32:42:17 Speaker 2 It was a very, very sort of special feeling, you know, when the riders pushed off and things like that, it was it was a special, sort of a unique feature within British Speedway. 00:32:42:19 - 00:32:45:18 Speaker 1 Okay. Well, thank you very much. That's all my questions. 00:32:45:20 - 00:33:06:07 Speaker 3 We're going to open up a. And so if you could answer towards David you got any any anything can I. You did touch on it. But if I could just get a little bit more David asked you about your sort of history, but could you go right back because you told me on the phone that your grandfather took your dad took about that? 00:33:06:08 - 00:33:10:02 Speaker 3 Kind of because it goes way back, doesn't it? David. Yeah. 00:33:10:04 - 00:33:11:11 Speaker 1 Would you like to ask the question? 00:33:11:12 - 00:33:12:04 Speaker 3 No, no. That's right. 00:33:12:05 - 00:33:13:08 Speaker 1 Okay. 00:33:13:10 - 00:33:51:16 Speaker 2 So, yeah, my grandad took my dad. I think it was in like the 1960s, maybe 1962 to, I want to say like the international war. You know, one of the big sort of Wimbledon speedway events that became like something a feature on the calendar with, you know, some of the big five things like Ronnie Moore, Barry Briggs OBE funding those, sort of those sorts of riders, you know, dad become dad became hooked on on speedway, became a massive sort of Wimbledon fan, you know, so everything you know, lots of posters in the house have got like sort of speedway connections. 00:33:51:16 - 00:34:13:00 Speaker 2 There's a signed picture of Ronnie Moore that dad was presented with on the center green by one of the Wimbledon riders. So speedway was a was a feature within within his life and you know, and my life, you know I've got three brothers, but I was the only one that sort of really picked up the sort of speedway bug. 00:34:13:02 - 00:34:37:16 Speaker 2 And it was those sort of weekly trips down to down to Eastbourne that were very, very special, you know, you know, the Eastbourne were riding in the, in the top team, top, top tier as well, you know, with some of the best riders in the world. And it was, you know, it was a, it was a very, very sort of special track. 00:34:37:16 - 00:34:59:10 Speaker 2 It was a very close bit and tight bit like Wimbledon as well. And you know, going, just going to those meetings sort of just for me were were really, really nice. And it and it, you know, it made me passionate about the sport ever since. And you know, as I said, I'm very fortunate to be in a position that I am to to referee now as well. 00:34:59:12 - 00:35:25:12 Speaker 2 The, you know, some of the biggest meetings that are held in this country, you know, and I still it's amazing to think, but I still referee some of the riders that actually rode on on the track at Plow Lane as well, which, you know, probably doesn't really, you know, it doesn't mean anything, but it still sort of makes me smile now that you know, there is still a connection back to back to Plow Lane, back to women and back to the Dons. 00:35:25:13 - 00:35:27:14 Speaker 2 So yeah. 00:35:27:15 - 00:35:28:14 Speaker 1 Okay. 00:35:28:15 - 00:35:45:12 Speaker 3 We'll add additional just from that is what was it? What was it about the speedway that took you? I mean, was it going with your dad? Was it the sport? What were the various I mean, probably quite a few things, but what were the things that got you hooked? 00:35:45:14 - 00:36:14:16 Speaker 2 The noise and the smell. You know, Speedway is unique in the fact that to watch motor race in any form of motor racing within a very confined environment is unique. To be as close as you can be to to the to the racing, you know, the fact that you can see, you know, the rider's eyes when they're at the starts watching the magnets go up on the tapes is is something special? 00:36:14:19 - 00:36:32:11 Speaker 2 You know, when the, when they drop the clutch and by the time they're sort of hitting the first bend, they're at 60 with three other three other guys next year with, without brakes, looking for a tiny bit of, of shale just to get that drive to, to take you into the to the back straight is a unique thing. 00:36:32:13 - 00:36:53:17 Speaker 2 You know, obviously it's very, very special that I've got all those memories from a dad as well, going down to Eastbourne and later Wimbledon and like, you know, so many different tracks up and down down the country, you know, even when, you know, I go to tracks now, you know. So I was at Buxton refereeing a couple of weeks ago, you know, the first time I went there was with like mum and dad and my younger brother. 00:36:53:19 - 00:37:12:00 Speaker 2 It still sort of takes me back to those memories, which is really special. So, you know, it's got that family connection. But then it's just that sort of rawness of of motorsport. It's a unique form of, of sport that I don't think you can rival with anything else. 00:37:12:02 - 00:37:14:19 Speaker 3 Did you have anything? Yeah. 00:37:14:24 - 00:37:28:05 Speaker 4 But the interesting question about the demographic, the age gap, why is do gather do attract older generation compared with younger with interest to go to to the track. 00:37:28:07 - 00:37:32:17 Speaker 2 Yeah. I think with, with Speedway. 00:37:32:19 - 00:37:33:22 Speaker 4 So you want me to ask me. 00:37:33:23 - 00:37:36:22 Speaker 3 No no no just just just he's got to up to you to just keep up. Yeah. 00:37:37:03 - 00:37:37:24 Speaker 5 Sorry I was. 00:37:38:05 - 00:38:04:02 Speaker 2 I think with, with Speedway the fact that it's boom period was with was like sort of pre-war and just our postwar, you know, it it has you know, some people have been very faithful to the sport. They've kept that sort of involvement. They've kept that that interest. Think the speedway, one of speedway problems is how to attract a younger generation. 00:38:04:02 - 00:38:34:13 Speaker 2 And it's still the questions that we ask today because, you know, despite the fact that it probably fits in perfectly with sort of TikTok generation and, you know, shorter attention spans, it seems to still miss, you know, younger generations. I think one of the one of the problems is that, you know, the facilities aren't always the greatest. You know, you standing in a in a field or somewhere with like limited facilities can be quite problematic for, for people. 00:38:34:13 - 00:39:05:12 Speaker 2 And it's not seen as that attractive. And also there's sort of sometimes long waits and things like that. So unless you're very sort of keen on the sport, you know, it can be quite, it can be quite difficult to see why this is as exciting. But, you know, sometimes when there's just a race and, you know, the British final last year was, I think, one of the greatest speedway heats that's ever existed, where there's probably about 30 passes within, within a minute. 00:39:05:13 - 00:39:26:16 Speaker 2 And sitting in the reference, I was sitting in the referee's box just behind the referee. And, you know, going into still like bend three on the last lap, all four of the riders could have won it. And there's not many sports, not many motor racing where that sort of, you know, that last like five seconds, you know anybody could have won it. 00:39:26:16 - 00:39:34:20 Speaker 2 So Speedway needs to make more of that. But it needs to improve across a number of different areas. 00:39:34:22 - 00:39:39:01 Speaker 3 I've just got another couple of quick ones. That's right. 00:39:39:03 - 00:39:39:11 Speaker 5 No it's. 00:39:39:14 - 00:39:51:22 Speaker 3 There's obviously greyhounds here. Stock cars AFC Wimbledon have moved to Kingstonian. But were any of the other things sports but they ever of any interest to you or is it. If not why not. Or why why why. I mean you've explained why speed. 00:39:52:03 - 00:40:22:12 Speaker 2 But I mean, I love greyhounds, I do like greyhound racing. I lost when in the, in the summer at Brighton. I think, you know, I used to come to the, to the greyhounds a few times. Stock cars. Not so much. And I think certain speedway fans will, you know, be quite protective over the sport. And I'm probably fall into, into that in the, you know, stock cars are quite loud. 00:40:22:13 - 00:40:50:22 Speaker 2 They're quite messy. They create quite a lot of damage where it's speedway doesn't. So I was probably more protective and have fallen into into that mindset that actually, you know, I like the motorcycle racing side of it. And I think that's what makes Speedway unique. But I think it's what gives it one of those those problems as well is that, you know, the average person that's interested in motorcycles, you know, speedway bikes are that different, that their interest doesn't always sort of move over. 00:40:50:22 - 00:41:03:09 Speaker 2 It's not transferable because they're incredibly stripped down, very raw machines that aren't stock. They're not standard. And I think that's yeah, that's probably one of the issues that Speedway has. 00:41:03:11 - 00:41:18:22 Speaker 3 Okay. And very last one for me, which just occurred to me because your dad you know, we don't know how he was today. Hopefully he's been able to talk about this. But we want to make sure we got the history down. Could you just tell David, just summarize his history from when he first started and then his in this. 00:41:18:24 - 00:41:20:09 Speaker 2 What would the PLC or. 00:41:20:09 - 00:41:26:23 Speaker 3 Just everything from his going his kid just just summarize just a page just just so we've got it on. 00:41:27:00 - 00:41:59:03 Speaker 2 Yeah. So I think with dad it was you know, his first meeting was in like 1962 here at Wimbledon, you know, used to come here sort of every week, used to go to most tracks within, within London and you know, for sort of up until the 90s used to go to Wembley for the, for the world finals there that were 90,000 people, you know, there the night that sort of Bruce panel won the last final in, in 81 when it was like packed out. 00:41:59:05 - 00:42:25:05 Speaker 2 So, you know, sort of a long sort of history of, of spectating. He did different bits and pieces. I think he used to record the old cassettes, you know, back before videos were a thing, and people wanted to listen to speedway meetings. He used to record on the, on the cassettes and, and did the commentary with that, you know, 1991 woman and close. 00:42:25:05 - 00:42:38:13 Speaker 2 So started going to start again to spawn back in 2001, 2002. Sorry. Just take a drink. 00:42:38:15 - 00:43:03:02 Speaker 2 Back in 2001, end of 2001, 2002 when Wimbledon reopened, I think he approached Dave Crouch and Steve Ribbons, who were the two promoters at the time, to to run the website and to take take photos to start off with. 00:43:03:04 - 00:43:29:05 Speaker 2 The. The opening night was disastrous. Unfortunately, it was, you know, one of the worst speedway meetings I've ever seen because the way that the, the way that the track was laid down, it was actually laid on the stock car track. So it was a big, big track. It was like the original size track. But the issue is that when they were putting the shale down, you know, it takes a long time to bind. 00:43:29:05 - 00:44:00:23 Speaker 2 It needs multiple multiple layers. It needs to be rolled, you know, and it takes an incredibly long time to to do so. That opening night, it rained quite heavily and there was about 4000 people in the stadium. So, you know, there was a lot of pressure to to get the meeting on. And, you know, having spoken to the referee in charge that night and the the two Bellevue Colts team managers who were there, who were, you know, team manager on the opening night, they said it was awful. 00:44:01:02 - 00:44:18:18 Speaker 2 You know, that probably should never have never have ridden. But, you know, the it was an opening night, you know, you know, if they if they had postponed it then, you know, they were worried about if anybody was ever going to come back. But as it turned out, he won. The riders dropped the clutch and the wheels just span and they went down. 00:44:18:18 - 00:44:45:14 Speaker 2 They didn't go forward. So it was like 92 93 seconds, which given, you know, it should have been about 60s. You know, it was very problematic. There was lots of other issues that sort of became apparent during that time around, like the stock car track and it breaking up and stuff. So the CB rescinded the track license around like the sort of April-May time. 00:44:45:15 - 00:45:10:10 Speaker 2 So that's when, you know, dad was involved with the consortium that turned into the Wimbledon Speedway plc. So there was about ten directors, all from different backgrounds, but all had an interest in sort of Wimbledon Speedway. So they invested. I think it was like 10,000 pounds each to, to put forward this, this new consortium. So they built a track within the inside of the stock car track. 00:45:10:10 - 00:45:33:01 Speaker 2 So it's a purpose sort of built speedway track wasn't perfect. It was tight. It was quite bumpy, but it allowed Wimbledon to sort of reopen and continue until 2005. So I think that track costs about 70 grand to be put in. It was put in by Colin Meredith, who was, you know, a very famous sort of speedway track man, well known, you know, within the sport. 00:45:33:01 - 00:45:44:24 Speaker 2 And it and it allowed Wimbledon to, to continue for, continue up until 2005. So it was it was a unique track up, I think, to put it politely. 00:45:45:01 - 00:45:54:10 Speaker 3 Okay. That's it for me. Don't take a picture just for our records of the interview. You can sit forward and. Yeah. 00:45:54:12 - 00:46:03:22 Speaker 3 Anything we missed, this is your history, the family history, anything you want to get on record for people to listen to in a thousand years? 00:46:03:24 - 00:46:27:11 Speaker 2 Not really. I just don't I just don't know why I do it. That's probably, you know, like, as I said, it's just a really sort of unique sport. And it's, it's great to great to talk about. And, you know, I'm very, very fortunate to, to still have some, some involvement today. And yeah, I owe a lot to Wimbledon for doing that. 00:46:27:11 - 00:46:39:18 Speaker 2 And it's something that I'm proud to. It's something that I'm proud of every time like that, a referee that, you know, my sort of, you know, my experiences are shaped by Wimbledon and Wimbledon dons.