00:00:00:02 - 00:00:11:18 Speaker 1 This is just a paper. Conducting an interview for the Speedway at Wimbledon Stadium oral History project on the 20th of April 2026. What is your name? 00:00:11:24 - 00:00:13:16 Speaker 2 Richard Clarke. 00:00:13:18 - 00:00:15:02 Speaker 1 Where were you born? 00:00:15:04 - 00:00:16:11 Speaker 2 Portsmouth. 00:00:16:13 - 00:00:17:05 Speaker 1 What were. 00:00:17:05 - 00:00:19:12 Speaker 2 You born? 1955. 00:00:19:14 - 00:00:21:12 Speaker 1 What did your parents do for a living? 00:00:21:13 - 00:00:22:02 Speaker 2 Sorry. 00:00:22:03 - 00:00:23:23 Speaker 1 What did your parents do for a living? 00:00:24:04 - 00:00:38:01 Speaker 2 My father was a baker. Then the milkman and a postman. And my mother helped her in a grocery shop and then eventually became a shoe shop manageress. 00:00:38:03 - 00:00:45:18 Speaker 1 So we're going to conduct the interview. We're going to start with some questions around the early days. Sure. What years did you go to Speedway at Wimbledon Stadium? 00:00:45:19 - 00:00:49:03 Speaker 2 1968. 00:00:49:05 - 00:00:50:19 Speaker 1 Was that just the one year that you went? 00:00:50:20 - 00:00:58:21 Speaker 2 No, that was the very first year. It was towards the end of the season. I only probably did maybe two, maybe three meetings. 00:00:58:23 - 00:01:01:24 Speaker 1 Okay. Can you tell us a bit more about your first visit to Wimbledon? 00:01:02:01 - 00:01:21:22 Speaker 2 Sure. My father was gone, taken along by a friend, probably 2 or 3 weeks before I went. And he came home with the program, and I always remember that intrigued me. I think, what is this? You know, I've never heard of it. And so after about two weeks, he said, well, if you want to come, come along. So I went along. 00:01:21:24 - 00:01:34:21 Speaker 2 At that time I was still quite a big football fan. And so. Well it's okay, you know, but there was something straight away. You know, the speed might be. 00:01:34:23 - 00:01:36:19 Speaker 1 Is it just your dad you went with? 00:01:36:21 - 00:01:39:16 Speaker 2 My mum and dad were both. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:01:39:18 - 00:01:43:12 Speaker 1 What were your early impressions? What? The sights. Sounds. 00:01:43:14 - 00:02:05:00 Speaker 2 Within. Within 2 to 3 weeks. So it was right near the end of the season. But even looking at the program, you were thinking where these all these teams. Newcastle. You know, I mean, I didn't know where Bellevue was. So it was almost like entering a secret world. Yeah. Quite, quite weird because you never saw any publicity anywhere about it. 00:02:05:02 - 00:02:06:07 Speaker 2 So. Yeah. 00:02:06:09 - 00:02:10:18 Speaker 1 So your first race was at Bellevue. Was it your first? 00:02:10:22 - 00:02:16:16 Speaker 2 No, no, no, I think I think it was Newcastle. Yeah, I think so. 00:02:16:18 - 00:02:21:09 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about any kind of family history that's connected to Speedway? 00:02:21:11 - 00:02:37:23 Speaker 2 Through my family only really? As I say that my father just met with a friend via the milk business, and he was a big Sluggo fan, and he said you should come along. You'd enjoy it. And that's how the connection began. Basically. 00:02:38:00 - 00:02:42:15 Speaker 1 Now touch on the experience now. Can you give me a description of the stadium itself? 00:02:42:20 - 00:03:05:04 Speaker 2 It seemed futuristic. It really did. Compared to the football stadiums that I'd already started going through, because you had this glass fronted grandstand, which was the most peculiar glass and like all seated in the grandstand. It was amazing. Yeah. Very futuristic. Yeah. 00:03:05:06 - 00:03:11:01 Speaker 1 And in particular around Wimbledon itself. Was there a particular place you like to watch from initially? 00:03:11:02 - 00:03:29:22 Speaker 2 Probably for about the first year. I was always up in the grandstand because my parents liked the comfort of one of these boxes that, you know, you just grabbed. You didn't reserve it, but you had a seat. You had a sort of a bench along the front where you could put your program and your coffee or drink or whatever. 00:03:29:23 - 00:03:35:01 Speaker 2 So it was quite, you know, it seemed upper class at the time. 00:03:35:03 - 00:03:39:11 Speaker 1 And as far as accessibility goes, was it affordable to most people? 00:03:39:13 - 00:04:06:05 Speaker 2 I think so. I mean, I haven't got great recollections, but what I can say is that the second year, which was my first full year in 1969, I persuaded one of my best friends at school, Tony Hitchen, to come with me. And he just loved it from the word go. And so we were going every week and we would have been paying our own way, you know, just through pocket money and we'd both earn money. 00:04:06:06 - 00:04:14:17 Speaker 2 He was doing a paper round. I was helping my dad on his move round. So we were getting a little extra. So it didn't seem, you know, to break the bank. 00:04:14:19 - 00:04:18:24 Speaker 1 Right. How busy was it? 00:04:19:01 - 00:04:31:05 Speaker 2 Very, very Thursday night. Yeah, very. Yeah. It was. You were getting crowds of, I'm guessing sort of between 6 and 8000. And it's quite a small, compact stadium, so. 00:04:31:09 - 00:04:34:17 Speaker 1 And were you able to buy merchandise or programs without. 00:04:34:19 - 00:04:57:12 Speaker 2 You always got a program that was essential because otherwise, you know, you didn't really know what was happening match wise. And it became almost like a ritual. You know, you've got to fill in the program and that sort of thing. You've got the rosettes. I don't know if you remember them. I mean, my first ever hero was a writer called Ronnie Moore who wrote for Wimbledon New Zealander. 00:04:57:13 - 00:05:31:20 Speaker 2 So I got myself a Ronnie Moore rosette and and it sort of went around with that proudly. My friend Tony got himself a Wimbledon scarf in the red and yellow colors. So I went we both had Wimbledon sort of shoulder bags with Wimbledon, sweet boy, you know, written on the side. So. Yes. And, and also the magazine Speedway style, which I started to get halfway through the 1969 season and of course ended up with an extremely lifelong connection. 00:05:31:22 - 00:05:36:08 Speaker 1 While you were at the Speedway. What kind of food and drink was available? 00:05:36:10 - 00:05:59:03 Speaker 2 Oh, there was a fully stacked stock bar at the back, but you also got burgers and stuff like that. Coffees or such. So, yeah, you know, it was again, unlike football, you know, you were sitting there in comfort with a, you know, eating a burger or, you know, much later on having a point, you know. 00:05:59:08 - 00:06:04:06 Speaker 1 So in your experience, can you describe a typical race like. 00:06:04:08 - 00:06:30:18 Speaker 2 Quite, quite exciting. I think you went along anticipating all the time. And in those days, particularly once you started to be a bit more aware of speedway as a sport, you knew the opposition's riders, more or less, if only by reputation. So each week Tony and I at school, you know, be going, oh, the major's here next Thursday. 00:06:30:19 - 00:06:51:02 Speaker 2 You know, Bellevue or, you know, Jim Airey Sheffield, you know, and it was names you only really read about until you saw them at Wimbledon, but also because of the nature of the sport in those days, you only really saw them once a year at that stadium because there were enough clubs, you know, that you only wrote against them once at home and away. 00:06:51:03 - 00:06:57:05 Speaker 2 So that in itself was, you know, the one chance to see all these sort of top men. 00:06:57:07 - 00:07:04:06 Speaker 1 Can we touch on your experience as a fan? Can you tell us about any particular riders that you followed? 00:07:04:10 - 00:07:33:03 Speaker 2 Yes. Ronnie Moore, definitely my first. He was my very first hero. Quite, quite a funny story about my friend Tony, because he came along for the first meeting in 1969, and I'd explained everything to him as best I could, but the first meeting was just what they called like a challenge match. It wasn't an official league match. And as we were coming out at the end of it, you said how much had enjoyed it and I said, come on, the news. 00:07:33:03 - 00:07:50:17 Speaker 2 Your favorite rider for Wimbledon? He said that Terry Betts and I had to explain to him that Terry Betts wasn't the Wimbledon rider because they had this guest rider system and he's going, what do you mean he's not a Wimbledon rider? I said, well, he's from King's Lynn. You know, they just borrowed him. How can you borrow riders? 00:07:50:18 - 00:07:58:19 Speaker 2 You know, it was and I must admit, that's haunted me ever since the guest rider system. You know. 00:07:58:21 - 00:08:01:09 Speaker 1 How accessible were the riders? 00:08:01:11 - 00:08:25:09 Speaker 2 Well, at the time, you could always go down to the pits at the at the end. But you stood by the pit guy. You couldn't go in there. But as they were coming out, having finished the meeting, they'd be carrying the kit, bags or whatever, and then mechanics would be pushing their bikes and they would always willingly stop and sign your program, you know, have photos taken. 00:08:25:10 - 00:08:29:17 Speaker 2 They were fabulous. Fabulous. 00:08:29:19 - 00:08:35:19 Speaker 1 Thinking about the fans, what was the general demographic demographic of the fans? 00:08:35:21 - 00:09:07:12 Speaker 2 Very family oriented, which again, if you were used to football, that was quite weird, particularly as the 70s dawned. I mean, you know, I was going to Chelsea at that time and basically you went to Chelsea and you just watched two loads of thugs beat hello which other every Saturday at Stamford Bridge. And you never saw that as we were ever so very different. 00:09:07:13 - 00:09:11:06 Speaker 1 To what extent did foreign riders bring their own funds to Mumbai? 00:09:11:08 - 00:09:47:13 Speaker 2 Not. Not that, not that much. In fact, in those very early days, you didn't even get that many foreign riders. You'd only ever see them at big international events. Not. Not domestically. The only. Well, when I say you had Australians and New Zealanders quite a lot because there was a big tradition of those countries being over here. But things like Swedish riders and you see 1 or 2 and then say, as the 70s wore on, you started getting people like, oh, the ocean from Denmark. 00:09:47:13 - 00:09:54:21 Speaker 2 And then it blossomed, but you never really saw their fans at all. You know. 00:09:54:23 - 00:09:58:16 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about any kind of rivalries with other teams? 00:09:58:17 - 00:10:47:21 Speaker 2 Oh, fierce. When Wimbledon in the again those early days you had West Ham and Hackney. Oh unbelievable. The atmosphere of those nights and Hackney in particular. They had a promoter called Len Silver who was a very, very experienced promoter, former rider, and he loved winding up opposition crowds. So if Hackney were to grab an unexpected win at Wimbledon, Len would join the team on the victory lap on the tractor, which they had in those eyes, and just stand there sort of pumping his fist at all the Wimbledon fans while they were on sort of one in a nobody did, but he wanted to climb over the fence. 00:10:47:22 - 00:11:04:20 Speaker 2 And so you have words. But but he was a showman. You know, he was doing it just for that very effect. And of course, nine times out of ten you went home raving about it. You know just how passionate it had been. So, yeah, it was fierce for his. 00:11:04:22 - 00:11:09:18 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about how important woman and spirit was in your social life? 00:11:09:20 - 00:11:50:22 Speaker 2 It became very important. I think both Tony and I, just as I said before, we felt we had stumbled on a secret world, and the school we both went to was a grammar school. And the, the, the masters in particular were completely divorced from reality. You know, they came from Tom Brown schooldays. You know, they thought that beating, you know, and 12 year olds was perfectly acceptable and that if you didn't end up with a classics, a degree or whatever, Oxford, then you're just a complete failure in life. 00:11:50:22 - 00:12:05:10 Speaker 2 And here we were watching, you know. What we quickly realized was more or less a working class sport. And we both came from working class backgrounds. So we all had really, you know, it was more our sort of thing, you know. 00:12:05:12 - 00:12:10:13 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about any other relationships with other people in the Speedway community? 00:12:10:15 - 00:12:11:20 Speaker 2 Just amongst the community. 00:12:11:20 - 00:12:14:20 Speaker 1 There maybe sort of in pubs or clubs? 00:12:14:22 - 00:12:38:01 Speaker 2 Not really not. But then we were quite young, you know, as I was, I was 12 and I first went so it would have been a good four years before, you know, we'd be able to drink. Well, Bobby, three years obviously, you know, 15 were there, but we didn't go into pubs around here or anything. You know, we just come straight to the stadium. 00:12:38:07 - 00:13:00:00 Speaker 2 One of the things we were doing in the first at least two years, we cycle from our homes in Kingston upon Thames to every home meeting, and we just knew this couple that had first taken my mother and father. They lived just down the road. So we leave our bikes at their house, walk down to the stadium, do the meeting, go back, get on our bikes and cycle all the way back to Kingston. 00:13:00:02 - 00:13:06:12 Speaker 2 You know, mad dedication. Yeah, absolutely. 00:13:06:14 - 00:13:10:11 Speaker 1 You mentioned that you didn't go to pubs, but were there any kind of fan clubs for young? 00:13:10:13 - 00:13:40:09 Speaker 2 There was a supporters club which was seemed to be quite big again because we were still quite young. We didn't, we didn't join. But I do remember the supporters club were always running coaches to the away meetings, so you'd always get those announcements. I can even remember vaguely one of the people that they used to say, go and see him at the back of the grandstand, you know, and he'd have a little desk, and then you book your seat on the supporters club coach. 00:13:40:10 - 00:14:04:05 Speaker 2 I did go on one at the end of 1969. The world final, which was an individual event, was at Wembley Stadium. And my father's friend said, did I want to go? And I said, yeah, why not? And we actually went in the Wimbledon Supporters Club coach, and that was my first ever trip to Wembley and my first ever world speedway final. 00:14:04:07 - 00:14:07:16 Speaker 2 And it was I opener. 00:14:07:18 - 00:14:16:02 Speaker 1 I mean, you've touched on your heroes already. You mentioned a particular either. Can you tell us about a really memorable night at the Speedway? 00:14:16:03 - 00:14:50:11 Speaker 2 Oh, undoubtedly. Early days. In 1970, the team was Belleview from Manchester, and the rider was their number one either Major Ivan. At that point, it just become the first ever rider to win three world titles on the trot 68, 69 and 70. So he comes down with his Belleview team for the first leg of a Knockout Cup final at Plow Lane, Wimbledon. 00:14:50:12 - 00:15:16:13 Speaker 2 Had been up at Bellevue only about three weeks before in a league match and got completely pummeled. Something like 53, 25, something like that. So you honestly thought we'd got no chance? This is going to be embarrassing. And went along because Oliver was so good. And please understand this. We all hated him. You know, we didn't. We didn't hate him, you know, but we hated him because he was so good. 00:15:16:17 - 00:15:38:08 Speaker 2 And he'd already come down in a league match and completely cleaned up. And so he thought, oh, this is going to be terrible. And he had a bit of a nightmare that night. And he started off with two third places I always remember which. You never saw Ivan run a third and somehow Wimbledon contrived to win something like 4631. 00:15:38:08 - 00:15:58:17 Speaker 2 There was a missing point. Remember that? And it was just amazing. You never expected that. And it was a fantastic crowd. Ivan fell off in his last ride when Ronnie Moore, my hero, stormed up the inside of him going into the pit corner. They didn't possibly touch, but Ivan slid off. So of course everybody's out of their seats. 00:15:58:18 - 00:16:22:01 Speaker 2 You know, jumping up and down. Ivan. Fair play too, and got back and pushed his bike around for the point. But and only a week later we were not to Bellevue for a second leg. Still thinking that won't be enough. And Ronnie probably had one of the greatest meetings of his life. I didn't go, but obviously I got the magazine after it and he only dropped two points and we only lost by ten. 00:16:22:01 - 00:16:28:15 Speaker 2 So we actually won the Cup. So that's always lived in the memory. It was great. 00:16:28:17 - 00:16:34:11 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about any other kind of entertainment that was available on speedway nights? 00:16:34:13 - 00:16:38:06 Speaker 2 It would only be. 00:16:38:08 - 00:17:12:06 Speaker 2 They'd just play records, really. And that was about it. But in the again, in the early days, the big tradition, which had my understanding, was brought about by the most famous promoter they had at the time, Ronnie Green, was that he always made sure that all the track staff were very smartly turned out, and when the meeting finally began, they used to march out of the pits to a song called Blaze Away, and then they'd all march over to the starting line, and it was all very regimented and quite smart in its own way. 00:17:12:06 - 00:17:32:14 Speaker 2 And then then the riders would come out and they would all stand along the start line as well, and they'd be introduced one by one by the announcer. So already it was very different to football, you know, because obviously football was just run out, you know, at a quick warm up and then off they went. But you know, you saw all the riders standing there. 00:17:32:16 - 00:17:47:11 Speaker 2 I suppose what was clever about it, because this is the only time you sort of ideas with no crash on it, so you could see exactly what they look like, etc.. So I always remember that. Yeah, yeah. 00:17:47:13 - 00:17:53:11 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about sort of traveling to away meetings or did you ever travel overseas? For instance? 00:17:53:14 - 00:18:23:02 Speaker 2 Well, we did our we started going away domestically and about I'm guessing between 72 and 74. I'm not sure I can remember the first one. There was Oxford on a bank holiday Monday morning. And then I think the same year Tony and I went up to Sheffield and Leicester and then bit by bit when we got older and we could have access to transport, we would do a lot more. 00:18:23:04 - 00:18:44:16 Speaker 2 It was really exciting going to tracks you'd never been to before because they were all so different. So, you know, Wimbledon was quite a small track and then you go to Sheffield and you couldn't believe the size of it. I mean, you could get three Wimbledon's around there and you thought, wow, that's you know, it's almost like a different sport. 00:18:44:18 - 00:19:05:00 Speaker 2 But then that, that made you start to understand why there be a discrepancy between the teams when they visited some of the other tracks, because they're so used to their conditions. Of course, unlike a football pitch, which is virtually the same, the dimensions were ridiculously different. 00:19:05:02 - 00:19:13:01 Speaker 1 And what was the role of speedway when you consider there were other sports in the area? 00:19:13:03 - 00:19:39:11 Speaker 2 I think it was fairly prominent in Wilmington. I think so because I was also aware of the football club, which was more or less next door. It was it was only over the bridge and they were non-league. In those days, that would have been the Isthmian League or no, probably suddenly reasonably successful. So to to us, it almost went hand in hand. 00:19:39:11 - 00:19:57:00 Speaker 2 And of course within the stadium the same. You also had the greyhounds every week. Although I never, I never went to the grounds. But you were aware of that and there were stock cars and we did try stock cars a couple of times but didn't really understand what was going on. So, you know, it didn't really get a grip on us. 00:19:57:01 - 00:20:09:04 Speaker 1 But okay, we're going to look at how changes to the stadium came about. How did one button. How did Wimbledon Speedway change over time? 00:20:09:06 - 00:20:48:11 Speaker 2 It's it's probably it's a bit sad to say, but it it was really a slow decline. My own personal take on it is that I do understand that in about 1970, 1971, clubs were coming into three way that were financed by businessmen who maybe had a three way background or whatever the problem Wimbledon had. My understanding was that because they came out of the greyhound stadium and it was a gray who owned the stadium, the Greyhound Racing Association. 00:20:48:17 - 00:21:14:08 Speaker 2 So unlike some of the other places like Cradley Heath, up in the Midlands or whatever, where not only did you get admission but you got all of the concessions. It's such a win win and I would really understood that. You've actually only got admission and that had to pay for everything, including stadium rent. And then I just a personal take. 00:21:14:10 - 00:21:41:14 Speaker 2 We, we went through a succession of not having great years after round about that 7071. And then in about 1974 I think it was we signed a Swedish rider, Tommy Janssen, who was unknown. 18, 17, 18 came over. The girls all fell madly in love with him because he was a real good looking lad. And he he was really promising. 00:21:41:16 - 00:22:17:05 Speaker 2 And then within a year he was beyond promising. He was fantastic, but so, so sad. I mean, in May 1976, he was broad rising in a Swedish World Championship round and he was killed. And my own personal opinion is that Wimbledon never recovered from then on, as it was always just a bit. It was gradual, but we never recaptured any great days again, whereas we might have done with him because I think he would have been a world champion. 00:22:17:07 - 00:22:21:20 Speaker 1 How did the closure of Speedway affect you personally? 00:22:21:22 - 00:22:46:08 Speaker 2 Not. Not hugely. That I don't want it to sound sort of blasé or anything, but by the time that they were going through their last sort of rights, if you like, I was working full time in Speedway on a magazine and was tied up with looking after all the big events. That was my job to go and report on all these meetings abroad and everything. 00:22:46:08 - 00:23:13:11 Speaker 2 So I didn't even come down to one hardly at all by that stage. But I was also aware that the stadium was in disarray. There had been no money spent on it for years. I think at least three quarters of it was not boarded up. But you weren't allowed to go there for health and safety. So it was the writing on the wall, you know, I mean, I thoroughly respected the fans who banded together and just tried to keep it going. 00:23:13:11 - 00:23:17:13 Speaker 2 But as I say, you know, I think it's time to go on. And that was it. 00:23:17:14 - 00:23:23:02 Speaker 1 So how did you feel that last time? 00:23:23:04 - 00:23:51:19 Speaker 2 As I say to me, it was inevitable. I, I could see that the crowds were, you know, so diminished. It wasn't the same, though. They were in the very lowest level racing. Which which is fine. But when you were used to seeing all the superstars come down there and then suddenly, you know, that's what's on offer and I could understand why people just got disillusioned. 00:23:51:20 - 00:23:55:03 Speaker 2 You know. 00:23:55:05 - 00:24:01:06 Speaker 1 Okay, we're going to move on to some questions based around your life as a journalist. Sure, sure. 00:24:01:08 - 00:24:02:09 Speaker 2 Just because I made a note on. 00:24:02:09 - 00:24:09:12 Speaker 3 It, you said that when you went to Wembley, it was an opener. What can you just tell Giuseppe? What? What did you mean by that? Can you describe it? 00:24:09:13 - 00:24:41:24 Speaker 2 Yes, sure. I'd never. That was my first ever world final. I was aware of the importance of it. In the scheme of speedway things, you know, you're going to see there. That night, someone crowned the world champion. But I wasn't really prepared to get into a stadium and then look around and realize there's about 80,000 people here. You know, when I was used to Wimbledon, which was like seven, maybe 8000. 00:24:42:01 - 00:25:13:08 Speaker 2 And of course, amongst those 80,000, you had virtually every single track represented. So everywhere you look, you know, you saw Leicester Lions scarves and Bellevue scarves and Hackney everybody, Exeter and a fabulous atmosphere. Fabulous. And it was it was a really, really good meeting. I remember and Ivan won it. That was his second title of the three that night. 00:25:13:09 - 00:25:23:08 Speaker 2 And there was a runner for second which Barry Briggs one. But it just stuck with you a great night. 00:25:23:10 - 00:25:28:16 Speaker 1 Okay. We'll start with the journalist question. Sure. How did you become a speedway journalist? 00:25:28:17 - 00:25:57:11 Speaker 2 Well, a speedway journalist, basically. I was already on the local newspaper in Kingston and I was on the news side of things. But after about be about three years, I realized that I could earn a wee bit extra for myself if I helped the sports that's covering local football on a Saturday afternoon. So they would give me one of the lower teams out of the ones we covered, which I'd really enjoyed. 00:25:57:12 - 00:26:37:14 Speaker 2 I enjoyed doing that, and they knew that. The sports editor and the deputy sports editor, Ian and Colin, knew that I went to Speedway and basically a song called Mike Patrick, who Lived local, had started that year, I think, 1975, supplying photos for the paper and a little report just on an extra money because he's a freelance and we had a down at Wimbledon sweeper that had a big individual event on the May Bank holiday called the internationally. 00:26:37:20 - 00:26:59:13 Speaker 2 And the deputy sports editor came up to me the Friday before he going to Wimbledon on Monday. I said, yeah, yeah, the course he said we could do with help because my Patrick says he's going to go and he'll do the photos, but he won't have time to the report. So could you do the report. So yeah. Yeah of course you know. 00:26:59:14 - 00:27:21:23 Speaker 2 So I mean I still paid to get in, but you know, I did the report. It was on their desk first thing Tuesday morning because I typed it up at home typing. Remember those? And then it appeared in the report, appeared in the paper with my pictures of the auction, won it. And that appeared on the Wednesday edition. 00:27:22:04 - 00:27:43:14 Speaker 2 And I was sitting, minding my own business in the office and the front desk rang up, said, there's a mike Patrick come to see you. And I thought, oh dear, you know, I've gone a children's territory here. So I went down and he was very friendly, very friendly, and he just said, I saw your report. I mean, do you, do you go every week? 00:27:43:20 - 00:27:57:05 Speaker 2 I said, yeah. He said, well, why don't you do the reports? I said, oh really? He said, yeah. So that's so I started doing the reports for the local paper every week. That's how it began. 00:27:57:07 - 00:28:01:12 Speaker 1 And at that time, how popular was Speedway? 00:28:01:14 - 00:28:25:00 Speaker 2 Probably not quite as popular as it had been late 60s, but still holding its own. Yeah, I would have said one of them were probably still getting five, 5000, something like that, which was what made the local paper think it was worth, at least because we weren't Wimbledon based, were Kingston based, but they still thought it was worth while. 00:28:25:01 - 00:28:28:15 Speaker 2 There should be a few people from Kingston who might follow it. 00:28:28:16 - 00:28:35:17 Speaker 1 So at the time, how was Speedway financed? 00:28:35:19 - 00:29:12:06 Speaker 2 Largely, I think quite a few individuals, fairly rich sort of promoters, were happy to play X amount of money in, depending on how successful their teams were. I can imagine I don't, and I would imagine the wages for riders were not astronomical then. I mean there should be not bad. But when you when you hear about what riders started to earn in Poland, say ten years ago or nothing like that, you know. 00:29:12:08 - 00:29:24:22 Speaker 3 I just I think it might be asking worth asking, Richard, about how we moved on to the in a journalistic career, because then he went to speedway starts and maybe just a continuation of that first question about journalism. 00:29:24:24 - 00:29:31:19 Speaker 1 So how did you end up moving from a local paper to the Speedway star? 00:29:31:21 - 00:29:46:04 Speaker 2 Quite simply, because once I started doing the reports from Wimbledon, the then deputy editor of star was a gentleman, Philip Rising and. 00:29:46:06 - 00:30:11:11 Speaker 2 He he said, come, come along and introduce himself because he saw the report. So I did, and this would have been probably 76. And after about a year, and he was very friendly, and a couple of times he actually said to me, could I stand in for him if he was on holiday and just just cover the woman of match, which I couldn't believe it. 00:30:11:12 - 00:30:30:22 Speaker 2 And I'm writing for Speedway Star. Fantastic. But in the course of that, I did say to him, well, that if ever a job came out, you know, please keep me in mind. And it was the middle of 1979, and he just suddenly dropped me a note and said, if you're still interested in the job, give me a call. 00:30:30:24 - 00:30:57:18 Speaker 2 And what had happened was the company that owned Speedway Star were launching a football magazine called Football Weekly News, and the Speedway Star editor Paul Parish was more of a football man than a speedway man, so he was moving over to edit Football News. Philip Rising was becoming editor of Spirit Star and he needed an assistant, so I was taken on. 00:30:57:20 - 00:31:04:17 Speaker 2 At the end of 79. I started full time beginning of 1980 and couldn't believe it. 00:31:04:19 - 00:31:09:22 Speaker 3 Maybe, just maybe, carry on just just quickly, Tracey, your career there, just where you are. 00:31:09:24 - 00:31:40:22 Speaker 2 Yeah, sure. Yeah yeah, yeah. And from then onwards, I was a speedway star right up until I became editor myself in 1996. Stepped down to allow one of my mates, who was also the assistant Andrew. Andrew Skills. He became editor while I worked under him, and then I retired in 2024. Great, great career in terms of fun. Fantastic time. 00:31:40:24 - 00:31:41:21 Speaker 3 Dream job. 00:31:42:00 - 00:31:44:03 Speaker 2 It was. It really was. 00:31:44:05 - 00:31:48:20 Speaker 1 How much media coverage did the sport get? 00:31:48:22 - 00:32:23:22 Speaker 2 From? From about the all through the 70s to early, very early 80s. Pretty good. Most of the national newspapers would carry at least one speedway column a week. You have World of Sport TV, ITV. They showed highlights of various big meetings on on the Saturday afternoon program, so it wasn't under the radar like it became later. You know, I wouldn't say it was like football or anything like that, but it wasn't ignored, you know. 00:32:23:24 - 00:32:26:15 Speaker 1 Did any celebrities associate himself? 00:32:26:17 - 00:32:58:13 Speaker 2 There were a few. I can remember David Hamilton, the radio DJ. He he was a big fan. And I remember he ended up being an announcer at Wembley when they came back in about 71 or 72, something like that. So yeah, every now and then I can remember Pat Phoenix out of Coronation Street, presenting the prizes at some individual meeting up at Bellevue, that sort of thing, you know. 00:32:58:15 - 00:33:03:05 Speaker 1 What was your biggest Wimbledon Speedway related story. 00:33:03:07 - 00:33:30:21 Speaker 2 As a fan? I think the other two memorable meetings that I would touch on is that in 1980, they launched an England v America test series, because America, at long last had a team worthy of taking on England. And the first test was at Wimbledon that May 1980. And it's still one of the most astonishing meetings anyone ever witnessed. 00:33:30:21 - 00:33:56:01 Speaker 2 It ended up in a draw 5454, and it was fantastic. England got a first and a third in the very last heat. I think John Louis and Peter Collins, I think to draw and the place just went absolutely mad. And then the other meeting was, I think about 1983. Cradley Heath were all conquering at the time. Magnificent team. 00:33:56:01 - 00:34:13:23 Speaker 2 And they were going to walk off with the league title, no doubt about it. And they won. They won it Eastbourne I think either 1 or 2 days earlier and they came to Wimbledon and to all intents and purposes that was when they were going to clinch the title because they would roll us over and that would be it. 00:34:13:24 - 00:34:33:07 Speaker 2 I still call us us then, you know, my early days on us, we were so and they didn't. It was that might have ended in a draw. I can't quite remember. Or we might have even one by one. But I do remember it was just so unexpected. And it was just such, such a great night, you know. 00:34:33:09 - 00:34:36:19 Speaker 1 What role did gambling play in speedway? 00:34:36:20 - 00:35:06:01 Speaker 2 Very little. Very little. I think you notice the contrast because, of course, dog racing was mostly about gambling. But you didn't. You couldn't bet on site or anything with speedway and it's never been part of it. Funnily enough, I remember there being a move sometime in the 90s to try and encourage that just so you could get more coverage out of betting shops or whatever, but it's just not really been in anyone's nature. 00:35:06:03 - 00:35:09:08 Speaker 2 So no. 00:35:09:10 - 00:35:15:19 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about any skullduggery that went on? 00:35:15:21 - 00:35:48:14 Speaker 2 Again in the early days? So the 60s, these local derbies I mentioned, they were fierce on the track and the riders would take no prisoners. That's the polite way of putting it. So you would get quite a few meetings where a racial ending fisticuffs, which of course for fans was fantastic. We loved it. I mean, now they probably get banned for life or something. 00:35:48:14 - 00:36:14:05 Speaker 2 But, you know, in those days it was almost like part of the show. Hackney had this lunatic Australian rider called Gary Middleton, who I'm sure was doing it out of a showmanship, but he used to go out of his way just to sort of provoke everybody. And then if he thought he'd been ill treated by another ride, he would confront them at the gate and swing a fist and all this, and it was all part of it, you know, it was all part of it now. 00:36:14:11 - 00:36:27:16 Speaker 2 I mean, much, much later on, obviously, when I was heavily involved in the sport, I was aware of some of the things that promoters would the some of the strokes they were pulling, which my lips are sealed. 00:36:27:17 - 00:36:29:11 Speaker 3 Really? You can't tell us any of those? 00:36:29:14 - 00:36:32:15 Speaker 2 No, no. 00:36:32:16 - 00:36:37:14 Speaker 1 Obviously safety was a big thing. What changes were made to improve safety? 00:36:37:15 - 00:37:05:23 Speaker 2 A huge, huge advances. When I was first going, it sounds ridiculous to say this now, but you almost got used to at least one death a year and it was just almost not acceptable. You understand what I mean? I mean, just it was almost expected. And then, I mean, back then you had sort of Greyhound lampposts right next to the safety fence. 00:37:06:01 - 00:37:29:05 Speaker 2 So for the safety of France, really hard. I mean, he wrapped himself around the lamp post, you know, and that caused so many, you know, but as the years went on and they brought out what they call where fences, which were big, bulky things that collapsed and they were a massive, massive boost just because the injury. You still got injuries. 00:37:29:05 - 00:37:39:18 Speaker 2 You can't can't really avoid them. But the deaths, you know, way down compared to a lot, lot safer. 00:37:39:20 - 00:37:43:02 Speaker 1 Regarding safety, what was done in particular Wimbledon. 00:37:43:03 - 00:37:43:20 Speaker 2 What was. 00:37:43:22 - 00:37:46:09 Speaker 1 As far as safety goes without any specific things? 00:37:46:09 - 00:37:46:21 Speaker 3 Don't wander. 00:37:46:22 - 00:38:14:13 Speaker 2 That one was quite it was quite good because because it was. The speedway track was part of the stock car track. The stock car track was bigger. So on the bends, the fence fenced off quite a bit of the stock car track. So if you ran off the speedway track the French would slow you and then you had this run off area of the stock car. 00:38:14:13 - 00:38:33:19 Speaker 2 So we didn't see that many horrendous crashes where people because some of the tracks the safety fence was that's where you stop. I mean, Exeter had had a metal safety fence, I mean to call it safety. It was intriguing. 00:38:33:21 - 00:38:39:13 Speaker 1 How would you say that the sport was affected by injuries and deaths to riders? 00:38:39:15 - 00:39:10:02 Speaker 2 It was always prevalent, as I said earlier, about the deaths. Sad. But you almost just came to know that at some time you're going to pick up the paper or whatever. And I dear, injuries have always been part and parcel of it, and the riders will be the first to tell you that they've always accepted that nearly all of them that I got to know would always say, we always knew the risks when we sat on the bike. 00:39:10:04 - 00:39:28:00 Speaker 2 And so you didn't go out there innocent and think, you know, I mean, I can remember some of the top riders who I got to know really well, great, great, great people. And they would sort of say to me. Come on, you know, come down to a training school, I'll put you through a paces. And I used to say, no, I mean, you've been injured. 00:39:28:01 - 00:39:34:09 Speaker 2 What chance have I got? No. Forget it. 00:39:34:11 - 00:39:43:19 Speaker 1 Going back to your time as a as a reporter, can you kind of tell us about a memorable interview with one of the riders? 00:39:43:21 - 00:40:13:09 Speaker 2 Loads. I mean, absolutely loads because they they were the easiest, easiest people to ever get along with because there were no airs and graces and they if they trusted you, then that was it. You know, job was so easy. One of the tales I tell sometimes when Mark Lauren, the Englishman, he became the first Brit to win the world title in something like. 00:40:13:09 - 00:40:37:21 Speaker 2 What was it? Years? Yeah. In 2000. And it was a big gosh in Poland and I. I'm still friends with Mark, but, you know, I really knew him really well in those days. And on his on that night, he was an absolute bundle of nerves, understandably, and the only needed to finish in a certain place. And then he was world champion and he just about scraped it. 00:40:37:24 - 00:41:03:10 Speaker 2 And I can remember walking into the press conference, which was held in like a basketball court, and it was full of Polish journalists. Understandably, it was their home territory, and they all want a piece of mark, of course, but I thought, well, I'm not going to battle my way through the the I'll just hang on. And I saw Mark's then girlfriend we call a flow. 00:41:03:10 - 00:41:21:09 Speaker 2 But the real name was Joanne and she's now his wife, and she was just sitting on her own up in the rafters where the crowd would normally sit at a basketball. So I waved and she waved back. So I thought, well, I'll pop up there. And I went up there and I gave her a hug. Congratulations. And sat down. 00:41:21:09 - 00:41:36:06 Speaker 2 And I always remember Mark looking up, and they just sort of gave me a big like that. And then as soon as all that was over, he came up and I got the exclusive, you know, so but there was, there was lots of that because there was such good people. Honest. 00:41:36:08 - 00:41:41:08 Speaker 1 Yeah. You mentioned that Ronnie Malls your hero. Yes. You interview him and his stories are. 00:41:41:10 - 00:42:12:01 Speaker 2 This is really hilarious. While I was still on the Sorry comet, but now covering Ronnie had retired. I can't remember what year it was. Now we'll say it was 71 or something. I can't quite remember. But he then made a comeback. You know, I think about 76. It doesn't matter. But it's while I'm on the sorry comet. So I say to Philip Rising, who's the editor of Sphere of Style, is there any chance I could get an interview with Ronnie more? 00:42:12:03 - 00:42:31:00 Speaker 2 Because to me, that seemed impossible. Now he won't want to talk to you. He said. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No problem. Come down the pits at the end of the meeting, I'll introduce you. So I go down into the pits and Philip says, yeah, come on, we'll go on the changing room. Ronnie knows you want to speak to him, so we'll go in there. 00:42:31:01 - 00:42:54:13 Speaker 2 So I walk in notepad. In those days, no dictaphone, everything. So I've got my notepad in my pen ready. Ronnie walks out of the shower. No towel stands there. He says. Oh, Richard. Yeah. Pleased to meet you. Anyway, you want to ask you some questions. So you my all time hero? What? He's telling himself off. And I'm sort of thinking, where do I look now? 00:42:54:15 - 00:43:00:12 Speaker 2 So that was memorable. Yes. 00:43:00:14 - 00:43:05:17 Speaker 1 Professionally. As a journalist, how were you affected by the closure of Wooden Speedway? 00:43:05:21 - 00:43:46:15 Speaker 2 It didn't it didn't help the magazine, of course, because you're going to lose some people who would just stop going and wouldn't carry on an interest. And that's continue to be the problem with star magazine, because every time a track closes and unfortunately that's more and more frequent, the less people buy the magazine. On top of that, the very nature of the modern world magazines are not necessarily a young person's mode of information, so the demographic of star is an aging one. 00:43:46:17 - 00:43:50:12 Speaker 2 It's quite difficult, very difficult. 00:43:50:14 - 00:43:58:05 Speaker 1 Looking back on your career and your time as a Speedway fan, what kind of memories does that bring back? 00:43:58:06 - 00:44:30:11 Speaker 2 All good other than injuries or sadly, a couple of deaths to people that you knew and became close to that. That was always quite a difficult because having, as I say, created a very, very close relationship with people. Eric Gunderson was a good example of a Danish rider. His career was ended, a crash at Bradford, and he was in a coma for over a week afterwards, and they weren't even sure what he pulled through. 00:44:30:11 - 00:44:57:11 Speaker 2 And I was very close to Eric, and I can remember going up to Pinder Fields in Wakefield, where he was being held after he came round, and typical Eric. I mean, he was still bubbly and even though his career was over and they weren't even sure whether he walked properly again and all this and believe it or not, I sort of went went in to see him and he was, you know, really, really happy to see me. 00:44:57:11 - 00:45:17:08 Speaker 2 And so I'm not I'm not there to interview him, I might add, because I wouldn't do that, you know. And during the course of our conversation I said, well, you know, it's great to see you doing what can you do one favor for me? I said, well, what? I said, I want to go for a curry, but they won't let me out. 00:45:17:10 - 00:45:27:23 Speaker 2 Can you sneak me out? So I did. I actually managed to get Eric out for his first Curry after an accident. 00:45:28:00 - 00:45:42:16 Speaker 1 One final question from me. Looking back at your kind of connection to one, and is there any one thing that you kind of think about as amazing memory? 00:45:42:18 - 00:46:07:03 Speaker 2 I think I've covered mostly. I suppose it became amazing to me that from being this 12 year old up in the grandstand and a wide eyed and I suppose it became fairly mazing that I end up being the person that reports on them every week and and has to ring the promoter every week and then talk to all the riders and travel with them and all that sort of thing. 00:46:07:03 - 00:46:31:00 Speaker 2 So you sort of think that's quite a leap really in a career to do that. And I'm sure we all understand it was almost initially quite a difficult thing to do because you're trying to stop treating them like heroes, but to you they still are. But now I've got no choice. I've got to sort of say, oh, do you mind if we have a quick chat and that sort of thing? 00:46:31:01 - 00:46:38:14 Speaker 2 And of course, when you found out how brilliant they were, it changed everything, you know. But yeah, that would be my last thing. 00:46:38:16 - 00:46:42:02 Speaker 1 Thank you. Do we have any other questions? 00:46:42:04 - 00:46:59:02 Speaker 3 Can I just just while you're on the subject, if you could still Lance in the direction of just that, be on the subject of heroes. You talked about Ronnie more. Could you tell us about some of the others over the years, either when you were a fan, I suppose starting off when you were 12 years old, and Ronnie Moore, just you mentioned Barry Briggs. 00:46:59:02 - 00:47:01:00 Speaker 3 Just tell us just to give us a little bit of a. 00:47:01:02 - 00:47:28:24 Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, a big Barry Briggs who? A woman of legend. I'm out and out, woman and legend. And he came back in 74. I think it was. So I was very lucky to see Barry ride. But even luckier to get to know him really, really well. And there's a lovely anecdote I can share with you about Barry. 00:47:29:01 - 00:47:55:04 Speaker 2 He's he's a big Wimbledon football Club fan as well. He's a big sports fan in general. But he's he's been to IFC a few times and he lives in California but obviously pops over in. And so every now and then I'll get a call. You know how the team doing you know. But he came to he came to partner with me one night when Wimbledon Football Club were playing there. 00:47:55:05 - 00:48:13:16 Speaker 2 It was a midweek game and we were walking out of the ground. Barry was going back towards his car and I was just walking with him, and a gentleman came up this side of me and Barry's there and the gentleman said he looked round and he said, it's him, isn't it? Because he was so recognizable. He was famous. 00:48:13:20 - 00:48:36:01 Speaker 2 Yeah. So I'm saying, yeah, yeah, I think it probably is night. And Barry's going, I'm not him, I'm not him. So it is him. I'm sure it's him. Okay. Yeah, I think he could write. Barry's gone, I know him, I'm not him. So this went on only for about 2 or 3 minutes. And this is magnificent. And Barry's never forgiven me for being actually present when this happened. 00:48:36:02 - 00:48:51:24 Speaker 2 Because the bloke eventually says it's speedway. I know it's speedway. You're riding. Major. Who was Barry's biggest rival? I'm on the floor, as you can imagine. And Barry's going. Don't you ever tell anyone? Don't tell anyone. 00:48:52:01 - 00:48:58:04 Speaker 3 I did, Barry, he was local. And I said he had a record shop or something to tell us about his local connection. 00:48:58:08 - 00:49:21:00 Speaker 2 His local conditions, where he. He started riding for Wimbledon, I think in 1952 when he was 17. And he'd be the first to tell you he was absolutely green behind the gills. I certainly, obviously wasn't around them, but everyone tells me that he was a lunatic because he was trying so hard, just used to knock everybody off all the time. 00:49:21:02 - 00:49:45:07 Speaker 2 And he was basically Ronnie Moore was now the huge hero of Wimbledon even then and fellow Kiwi. So Barry says Ronnie took him under his wing in those early days. And Wimbledon then used to run on a Monday night. And Barry said that every Monday morning, Ronnie Moore used to take him down to the stadium with the permission of Ronnie. 00:49:45:07 - 00:50:07:04 Speaker 2 During the promoter, they would get about two hours on the track on their own whilst Ronnie was trying to brush all these rough edges off. But the thing that always staggered me, Barry said that when they when they finished, he said we would park the bikes in the pits and they used to be a little cafe across the road from the stadium called the Stadium Cafe, which I remember even in the 60s. 00:50:07:04 - 00:50:31:00 Speaker 2 It was there and like the all time hero of Wimbledon Speedway, would go in there with Barry Brothers and sit down and they'd have a fried breakfast or whatever. And I used to think, imagine if you were a Speedway fan in those days and you popped in for a cup of coffee, and that's Ronnie, more credible. 00:50:31:02 - 00:50:34:15 Speaker 3 Anyone else? But I mean, I've got some. Is there anything else you want to tell us? 00:50:34:16 - 00:50:36:07 Speaker 2 I don't think so. 00:50:36:08 - 00:50:40:17 Speaker 3 I think history and, you know, this is going to be in the archive. So we want to get as much. 00:50:40:23 - 00:51:02:04 Speaker 2 Sure. I'm trying to think. I'm trying to keep it to sort of Wimbledon, obviously, because that's almost my problem that as I say, by sort of whatever year it was, in three or so, I was caught up in covering it as a whole. So that Wimbledon just became something else that you did, and particularly when I was doing the big meetings. 00:51:02:04 - 00:51:06:05 Speaker 2 But. 00:51:06:07 - 00:51:36:13 Speaker 2 You had to after after Tommy died, there was a period when we had a Polish rider called Eddie and Sash started riding for us, and in those days, the amount of money that would be involved was not great. So incredibly, Eddie would drive from Poland to Wimbledon for a home meeting and then drive back. And that was his weekly journey. 00:51:36:13 - 00:52:08:08 Speaker 2 And he became a huge favorite because he was a great little rider, really, really good rider. And so when I say about that, that slow decline, that's what I mean, that you still had quite a few faces when when Wimbledon first dropped down into what was then the second division called the National League, Roger Jones, who had been riding for the First Division team, probably as like a middle order to to reserve because of the drop. 00:52:08:09 - 00:52:38:06 Speaker 2 He suddenly was now like a superstar and he lived locally. Him and his parents and brothers all came from Worcester Park. And so I got to know all the family. And Roger famously in Worcester Park, there was an Indian restaurant called The Sunrise and they started sponsoring him. So the Thursday nights might have been Wednesdays by then, I can't really remember. 00:52:38:07 - 00:52:56:19 Speaker 2 Doesn't matter. But it was almost became a ritual as well that you'd come to display Ray hook up with Roger in the bar after that, and then we'd all bundle down to the sunrise in Worcester Park and have a curry. And that was sort of a regular thing as well. So it's those nice little touches that you don't forget. 00:52:56:21 - 00:53:05:19 Speaker 3 About your connection. You mentioned that you were a Wimbledon baby. How did the two work hand in hand, or that in the speedway. 00:53:05:21 - 00:53:42:04 Speaker 2 As in football? Well, the football also came about because of the local newspaper, because Wimbledon was very much on the sidelines as regards the Surrey Comet, but it was a team that they wanted to cover because they were quite successful. So it wasn't the main team. Kingstonian was the main team, but as a result, I often used to that sense of Wimbledon because it wasn't one of the main teams and I was very, very lucky to to start following the 76 or 77 side. 00:53:42:07 - 00:54:07:20 Speaker 2 When Alan Basford moved from Hersham to Wimbledon and got to know, got to know, Alan, you used to have to bring him up for team news. He could be a pest, a lovely man, but I used to have to ring him every Friday to to get what team is going to put out for Saturday, because we publish that in the paper and week in, week out, without fail. 00:54:07:21 - 00:54:35:20 Speaker 2 He would then rattle off the whole squad without giving me any clue as to anyone's going to play or not play. So complete waste of time really. But he meant well and he was a very, very nice man, very generous, and I was very lucky. Might have was in 1974, 75 to actually cover the Wimbledon Football Club win up at Burnley in the FA Cup third round, when they were the first ever non-league side to win on a First Division ground. 00:54:35:21 - 00:54:40:01 Speaker 2 And I was there covering it and that was memorable. 00:54:40:03 - 00:54:48:20 Speaker 3 And how's it feel now to feel anything to come along and support AFC Wimbledon? I love it on the site where there speedway was. 00:54:48:22 - 00:55:25:03 Speaker 2 It's it means a lot when when they finally got permission, as you're probably aware, it was a bit of an uphill battle for quite a while. And when we I use we as in terms of AFC Wimbledon, when we embarked upon the new era with that first game away at Sandhurst, at that time, you were just happy that you had a team again, because of the way the FA had brutally treated us, that, you know, suddenly were 52 miles north in Buckinghamshire. 00:55:25:05 - 00:55:51:23 Speaker 2 No we're not. Yeah, that's Buckinghamshire, you know, but in that sort of first, sort of few few seasons, I loved that we had a team again. But of course we weren't in the borough. We didn't have our own ground. We were sharing with Kingstonian. And you didn't really necessarily believe that it would get any better than that. But that didn't matter because you had a team. 00:55:51:24 - 00:56:22:14 Speaker 2 And then as as the whole story has gone on, it's been an amazing thing to have just been a supporter in it. So when we finally found out we had permission to get here, I live only ten minute walk from the stadium, so during the first lockdown, which was before the season began, I think when you couldn't play with any fans and that was the first season here. 00:56:22:15 - 00:56:43:20 Speaker 2 I can remember coming down and desperately trying to get pictures of the stadium, just to show to my mates, who were also IFC fans, because just couldn't believe we were going to have a stadium here. And when we finally walked in, it was like, wow. And it still is. I still got the word fatter. I can't believe we the club have managed to achieve this. 00:56:43:22 - 00:56:46:12 Speaker 2 Fantastic. 00:56:46:14 - 00:56:59:08 Speaker 3 And just last one for me, just going back to obviously Wimbledon. Eventually the speedway closed down. But you tell it, take us through how you felt in the process of other tracks in London. Slowly. 00:56:59:10 - 00:57:02:02 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:57:02:04 - 00:57:29:07 Speaker 2 It was just always sad. I never even got to West Ham before they went, which I think was about 72, so I never went there. I was quite a regular at Hackney for a number of years and then that stadium went then. Then you got this brand new stadium built in its place, the London Stadium. And at that time you're quite optimistic. 00:57:29:08 - 00:57:41:03 Speaker 2 You thought, oh well that's, that's come back, that's great. But that didn't, that didn't work out. And bit by bit. 00:57:41:05 - 00:58:07:24 Speaker 2 One of the things I've always said about the difficulty working on Speedway Star and being based as we were in Surbiton, was that if Wimbledon Speedway had still been going on a regular basis, I probably would have still been going. But it became harder and harder to go anywhere to the point where where you are now, Oxford is your nearest track. 00:58:08:01 - 00:58:21:14 Speaker 2 Well, you're not going to track out there on a Wednesday night just for a night out in Speedway and then get home at 2:00 in the morning. And that was a big problem, a big problem, but it's very, very sad. Yeah.