00:00:00:09 - 00:00:04:04 Speaker 1 Jump. We're going to start with some basic questions. What is your name? 00:00:04:06 - 00:00:06:04 Speaker 2 John Patrick Lynch. 00:00:06:08 - 00:00:07:13 Speaker 1 Where were you born? 00:00:07:14 - 00:00:09:03 Speaker 2 Cork, Ireland. 00:00:09:05 - 00:00:10:17 Speaker 1 What year were you born? 00:00:10:19 - 00:00:12:14 Speaker 2 1958. 00:00:12:16 - 00:00:15:00 Speaker 1 What did your parents do for a living? 00:00:15:02 - 00:00:46:24 Speaker 2 My father was war blinded, but he, Barclays Bank retrained him as a telephonist. So that's what brought us over really to England. And I was three months old when it came to Wimbledon. So yeah. So he was quite groundbreaking in, you know. The Disability Act didn't exist at that time. So to have that opportunity to work for the bank and just to do all of that, plugging in and out through memory was quite something, really. 00:00:47:01 - 00:00:58:13 Speaker 1 Sounds interesting. We're going to start now if that's okay. We'll start with the early days. First question what years did you go to speedway at One Wooden Stadium regularly? 00:00:58:15 - 00:01:25:18 Speaker 2 I first started in 65. I was seven years old then. And it was a real instant attraction for me, and I was terribly being tunnel vision with things. I think if I bonded to it, then I would just go back and it would become a regular thing. So in 1965, when the very famous Ronnie Moore was still riding then, and the Wimbledon captain. 00:01:25:20 - 00:01:56:04 Speaker 2 So I did see what was at that time a really, really iconic team that was just had amazing success, really. And I think probably early 80s because I moved away and then I started working abroad. So it would be very intermittent. My love for Speedway didn't die, but obviously Wimbledon, you know, probably took a turn for the worse middle of the 80s in terms of how it was run and the popularity of the sport. 00:01:56:06 - 00:01:59:01 Speaker 2 So it was infrequent after that. 00:01:59:03 - 00:02:04:00 Speaker 1 Going back to that first visit, can you tell us a bit more about that and who did you go with? 00:02:04:03 - 00:02:29:07 Speaker 2 I went with a grandad, said my father was blind, so I used to do a lot of my early experiences with my grandad, particularly on the sports side. And so yeah, so they lived up the Irish community near White City. White city had a speedway team and obviously he went to Wembley, had a speedway team as well. I was always fixated about where I was, Wimbledon. 00:02:29:07 - 00:02:50:20 Speaker 2 So whilst my siblings were supported, your West Ham's and your Arsenal's, I was very much about this. This is where I live. So yeah, with the football and then with the speedway again, you know, I said to him I'd love to go to Speedway, I'd love to experience that and I want to go to my local one. 00:02:50:22 - 00:02:54:01 Speaker 1 What were your early impressions of this speedway? 00:02:54:03 - 00:03:12:11 Speaker 2 Mad. Absolutely mad. You know, even then, as a youngster, the I mean, the thrills and spills, there was very little health and safety back then. I mean, the fencing around it was metal, you know. 00:03:12:13 - 00:03:36:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. It was just crazy to think that there was a 500 cc bike being raced around with no brakes on a shale track that through, you know, if you if you're watching racing side by the track, you were going to come out peppered with shale and stuff at the end of the evening. And it just really it was just exciting. 00:03:36:11 - 00:03:52:17 Speaker 2 And I guess as a kid, you know, even when riders came off, it was still exciting because it was like, oh. And more often than not, they'd get back on the bike and they'd be racing again in the next race. A certain amount of admiration, I suppose. I think. 00:03:52:19 - 00:03:57:22 Speaker 1 Can you tell us a bit about the sights and sounds or the smells of that experience? 00:03:57:24 - 00:04:33:09 Speaker 2 The smell was really, really distinctive. So they're they're very small tanks in terms of the fuel. So they basically there's nothing there to do the four laps of methanol. And that produces quite, quite a strong smell. And it's very, very distinctive. And that and the roar of the bikes, you know, when they're, when they're revving them up in the pits before and they kind of excitement builds and then they come out and the, the, the stadium marshal tries to get them all to line up in in good order. 00:04:33:11 - 00:04:47:02 Speaker 2 But there's always sort of mind games going on about which lane they've been in. And, you know, they tend to scrape a lot in the shale so that their, their tires would have more grip when, when the race started. 00:04:47:04 - 00:04:51:23 Speaker 1 To you as a fan, how important were the team colours? 00:04:52:00 - 00:05:31:16 Speaker 2 I suppose there was an instant resonance in the fact that it was Don's just the same as a football club. You know, Don's so, you know, I thought every reason in my childhood, you know, I wanted to relate to Wimbledon. So, you know, I went to watch Wimbledon rugby as well. So big sports fan, but and I kind of thought the unusual, you know, because I guess my only thing with it was it was very kind of almost reminiscent of China and Vietnam and the fact that it's red with that big yellow star on it, which was interesting. 00:05:31:16 - 00:05:37:13 Speaker 2 But yeah, it was either blue or yellow or red and yellow. It didn't bother me as long as it was at all. 00:05:37:15 - 00:05:43:23 Speaker 1 You touched on going with your grandfather. Do you have any other sort of family history within the speedway? 00:05:44:00 - 00:06:08:07 Speaker 2 No, not at all. Apart from my granddad who used to watch the sport, I don't think my father ever went. He went to football when he was younger, so. No, you know, wasn't that. I came from a huge sporting background, but I liked to participate. You know, I spent a lot of my time playing football or, you know, representing the county in running. 00:06:08:13 - 00:06:15:18 Speaker 2 And so, yeah, big, big sports. Sports is a really big thing for me. And speedway was just something totally different. 00:06:15:18 - 00:06:23:08 Speaker 1 Really touched on the experience of visiting the stadium. Can you describe the stadium? To me? 00:06:23:10 - 00:06:47:24 Speaker 2 It was a part of Wimbledon that wasn't familiar. This area was hugely industrial in terms of where the football club was and, you know, the I think the sports stadiums and the industry were here first before residential started forming and moving in. And I don't what you call this area of Wimbledon, they used to call it Somers Town. 00:06:48:01 - 00:07:27:00 Speaker 2 So it did have its own identity, which has kind of been lost over time because now if Wimbledon or you're in Tooting, but Summers Town was a very dedicated area that kind of went over the borderline between the two London boroughs. So but it was very much the poorer end of Wimbledon. And I don't mean that disrespectfully. It's, you know, I even remember back then, you know, that that it was more nonresidential than residential and it was an area of Wimbledon that really probably, you know, apart from sports, things didn't really have a lot going for it in terms of attraction. 00:07:27:02 - 00:07:31:07 Speaker 1 Was there a particular place within the stadium that you like to watch from? 00:07:31:09 - 00:07:37:12 Speaker 2 Yeah, it was a really good stadium and. 00:07:37:14 - 00:08:04:12 Speaker 2 I suppose now the boardroom, I kind of like my luxuries, but I think I liked it as a kid back then as well. So what they was, there was a whole glazed off area of the stadium and that's where they used to do the hospitality. But also it was staggered down, so they had high chairs and you had a platform that you could lean on, and that was good for writing down the race scores and everything raced by race. 00:08:04:12 - 00:08:13:15 Speaker 2 So, you know, I could smell it and I could hear it, but it was muted somewhat like that. I was in a room with a glass screen and I didn't get any shale over me. 00:08:13:15 - 00:08:22:17 Speaker 1 So touched on the different areas of the stadium itself. How Fordable was entry? 00:08:22:19 - 00:08:44:05 Speaker 2 I'd have to look at a program. I mean, even back then, I think I'd already started my paper around and, you know, pocket money for doing chores around the house. So I very quickly was going independently, even as a young, young kid. And, you know, it was obviously in old money. So it would have been pence. We wouldn't have, wouldn't have been very much at all, really. 00:08:44:06 - 00:08:50:03 Speaker 2 And certainly I could afford to get in even as a kid, out of the little bit of money I was creating each week. 00:08:50:08 - 00:08:54:22 Speaker 1 And when going to meet, how busy was it initially? 00:08:54:22 - 00:09:26:22 Speaker 2 Really busy. So it would be very full and that changed over time. But I think for the first decade, certainly up until the mid to late 70s, it was very, very well attended and it did start to start to decline after that. And obviously I wasn't there at the end of it in the early 90s. You know, I would go and watch Speedway, but I wouldn't go out of my way to come back to Wimbledon. 00:09:27:01 - 00:09:33:03 Speaker 2 And that wasn't a disloyalty thing. It was just a practicality thing where I was really. 00:09:33:05 - 00:09:37:08 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about any merchandise or programs that were available? 00:09:37:09 - 00:10:06:18 Speaker 2 Yeah, well, the programs are always key with Speedway, as is the boards that you put the program in, because the there's a scoring system at each race and the space in the program there, you literally fill the scores in yourself, and then you total it up at the end of the evening and that's your match result. And then that becomes your memory of, you know, Ronnie more won five heats at that time in that evening because that's what you filled in your own way. 00:10:06:18 - 00:10:10:23 Speaker 2 So it was kind of a. 00:10:11:00 - 00:10:23:02 Speaker 2 Unusual to have a program that was actually very interactive with the sport, because that wasn't so with football or, or the rugby or anything. So that was something else that was quite niche with the speedway. 00:10:23:04 - 00:10:30:05 Speaker 1 And touching on that. Your visits to the stadium itself, what food and drink was available to fans? 00:10:30:07 - 00:10:34:17 Speaker 2 It was pretty basic actually. We've got. 00:10:34:19 - 00:10:56:10 Speaker 2 Somewhere other. We've got a menu from the 70s, and I think the three courses was a couple of shillings, you know, maybe five shillings or something. And it started off with the inevitable prawn cocktail. And then I think it was a stake in kidney pie or steak, pine chips, and then finished with a, with a trifle or a Sunday or something. 00:10:56:10 - 00:11:21:00 Speaker 2 So exactly what you'd expect, you know, if you were going out for a meal back in those before the revolution of, you know, the all the cuisines we get to sample nowadays really. So yeah, it was very, very much reflected. It wasn't particularly aimed at working class, although I think most of the punters were probably working class. 00:11:21:02 - 00:11:26:21 Speaker 1 If I could take you back. Could you describe a typical race night? 00:11:26:23 - 00:11:52:05 Speaker 2 I think for me it's all it starts as soon as you go out of the house and you're on your way, you're kind of anticipating it. There's always that that danger, particularly in this country with incremental weather. So you might make the journey and find that, you know, speedway riders will race in the rain, but not to a point where it's considered dangerous. 00:11:52:07 - 00:12:17:19 Speaker 2 So if it rains really heavily, the likelihood is that it's either not going to take place or it's going to be abandoned after a certain number of races. I can't remember where the cutoff point is. I think if you if you go over halfway through the match, they leave the scores as a result. But I think if it's seven heats or less, they've got to come back and race again. 00:12:17:21 - 00:12:41:04 Speaker 2 So yeah, it was, it was gradually, you know, the bus journey there up to the stadium I think. I'm not sure where the trams are still running. Then they might have stopped, but it was a bus journey for me anyway up to the stadium. And then you go in, it's under floodlights, you know, they're tuning up in the pits, there's already that roar of the engines, etc.. 00:12:41:04 - 00:12:55:09 Speaker 2 So. And I think, you know, from a crowd point of view, you pick up on that dynamism. Everybody's feeling the same. Let's get the racing go. And it's exciting. We're really looking forward to it. 00:12:55:11 - 00:13:01:09 Speaker 1 And once you were there, could you tell us about any particular riders or teams that you followed particular? 00:13:01:11 - 00:13:28:21 Speaker 2 For me, it was only Wimbledon. It didn't extend to other teams pretty much like the football. I never had a second favourite, you know, iconic riders, I suppose. Certainly one of the first started going was Ronnie Moore, who was world champion, and then we had Barry Briggs, who was a world champion, Tommy Janssen, the Flying Swede, who unfortunately died in the Speedway crash. 00:13:28:21 - 00:13:56:06 Speaker 2 But he would have been a world champion. And there were other favourites, like Bert Harkins was the number two to Barry Briggs, so he was known as the Flying Scotsman at number two. There was another one called Roger Jones. I think he was a one team rider throughout his whole career. So he came through what essentially I suppose was more like an academy into the men's racing side. 00:13:56:07 - 00:14:08:17 Speaker 2 I think he was really probably about 17 when he made his racing debut. So but they were, you know, they were world champions, you know, famous. It's just. Yeah. 00:14:08:19 - 00:14:11:14 Speaker 1 How accessible were the riders to have done on them? 00:14:11:19 - 00:14:45:19 Speaker 2 Yeah, it was really open. So not once the races started, not in the immediate lead up to to the races, but you could go into the pits and you could converse with them. And that was also unusual, although there was an element of that with football as well at the time, not going into the changing rooms. But, you know, the way that Wimbledon football was set up was it was quite an interactive experience with the players, certainly after the game and this was the reverse. 00:14:45:19 - 00:14:50:05 Speaker 2 So the access was before the meeting rather than afterwards. 00:14:50:07 - 00:14:57:01 Speaker 1 And talking about speedway when we're in speedway as a whole. Were there different teams within the speedway club? 00:14:57:03 - 00:14:58:20 Speaker 2 No. 00:14:58:22 - 00:15:03:19 Speaker 1 So how many teams could you tell us a bit more about any sort of junior teams or. 00:15:03:21 - 00:15:23:00 Speaker 2 I mean, they would have junior reps, but they tended to be challenged games, or they would have a Wimbledon select, which might have been old riders who had retired, but there was no specific. Not that I can remember anyway. Regular racing by a B team or reserve team or anything like that. 00:15:23:02 - 00:15:33:11 Speaker 1 Okay, going back to being a fan, can you tell us about the general demographic of a fan who visited the woman in Speedway? 00:15:33:13 - 00:15:58:06 Speaker 2 Yeah, primarily white male, but a good age range, you know? So it was multi-generational and there was families there. But I would say, you know, at best, probably it was 80%, probably even higher than that in terms of white male. 00:15:58:08 - 00:16:03:19 Speaker 1 To what extent did foreign riders bring their own funds to Wimbledon? 00:16:03:21 - 00:16:26:06 Speaker 2 I think with the sport, I mean, I think the riders have always raced for more than one club. So, you know, they could have raced in Poland and they could have had another race in Sweden and then they'll come over to England. I mean, it was quite a gruelling schedule for some of them in terms of, you know, make being able to earn a living at it. 00:16:26:08 - 00:16:50:08 Speaker 2 See, there would have been visiting fans, but primarily it was your core audience was what it was. And people would come from away. Watch support the away team as well. But nothing. Once again, nothing like football. And there was no tribal friction in any way, shape or form that I ever saw at any stage with it. It was just really good natured. 00:16:50:13 - 00:16:54:15 Speaker 1 So when you said it was no tribal fiction, was there any rivalry at all? 00:16:54:17 - 00:17:16:18 Speaker 2 I think when we were the last speedway track in London to close, you know, that was kind of a Hackney Hawks or the White City Rebels. So there was kind of like that London Derby thing, but it wasn't a big deal. So nothing like Tottenham against Arsenal or anything of that ilk. 00:17:16:20 - 00:17:23:06 Speaker 1 If we can touch on maybe the social side of it, how important was Wimbledon Speedway in your social life? 00:17:23:07 - 00:17:42:14 Speaker 2 I think for me it was just another adventure as a kid that I primarily I did on my own. I mean, I did go with people, but, you know, I was and I was always able from a young age to, to travel on my own and do things. And that never worried me. I mean, it was nice doing it, you know. 00:17:42:16 - 00:18:01:06 Speaker 2 Football was more with school, friends, etc. but speedway in the main was a very solitary thing for me. You know, though, I'd see people in there and people would sit in the same seats for the same year for different races. So you get to say hello to people and, you know, get to know their names and things. 00:18:01:06 - 00:18:05:23 Speaker 2 But primarily I didn't go with anyone. 00:18:06:00 - 00:18:14:09 Speaker 1 So as a as a fan, did you build any relationships with other fans or did you meet in other locations? 00:18:14:11 - 00:18:35:14 Speaker 2 There was a couple of crossovers with the football. You know, a friend of mine called Chris Burgess who he was a big Wimbledon fan, and we didn't go to the same school. But we certainly, you know, we became good friends over a long period of time. And he was a Wimbledon fan as well. And then when I see Wimbledon started we actually reconnected. 00:18:35:19 - 00:18:57:14 Speaker 2 So that was really good. Sadly passed away now. But yeah, no it wasn't a big need for me. You know I like going and watching and then coming away again. So, you know, it's not that I'm anti-social, it's just that, you know, I didn't I didn't need it really to enjoy, you know, the evening. 00:18:57:16 - 00:19:03:04 Speaker 1 Going back to that time. Were there any fan clubs that fans used to attend or. 00:19:03:07 - 00:19:30:22 Speaker 2 There was a supporter association? The. I don't think it was that well organised. And certainly when I was a kid, I didn't have the money to go, you know, traveling to away races anyway. But yes, there was and you could get a membership card. And back in the day these were just, you know, stiff paper or, you know, thin cardboard things that just were all handwritten. 00:19:30:24 - 00:19:56:17 Speaker 2 There was nothing like. Well, they've gone through plastic and then now we're back into just scanning on the machine. But see, all of that to me was collectible. You got your race ticket, your program and everything went into a folder in order and kept so both the football and speedway, wherever I was, you know, they always came with me. 00:19:56:19 - 00:20:07:01 Speaker 1 You touched on some of the speedway riders at Wimbledon. Can you tell us about your actual Wimbledon speedway heroes? 00:20:07:03 - 00:20:33:09 Speaker 2 I think yeah, I think everybody loved Tommy Janssen when he came in. He was kind of he was the Speedway pin up guy and he was a really exciting racer. So he raced at the tail end of Barry Briggs career and he was at number three. So he was a heat leader as well as Barry. And then Roger Jones was the local guy that just raced for Wimbledon. 00:20:33:11 - 00:20:56:10 Speaker 2 So they were the standout for me. Reg Luckhurst pretty iconic as well. Ronnie Moore was just amazing, so he was my first real kind of cult speedway hero really. The fact that this guy had won a world championship and done it two weeks after it really, really bad accident was just incredible, really. 00:20:56:12 - 00:21:02:18 Speaker 1 Referring to those riders. Can you tell us about a memorable night at the Speedway for you? 00:21:02:20 - 00:21:46:11 Speaker 2 Well, the individual tournaments, I guess the team racing, it's always great if we won, but obviously we hosted things like internationals and Grand Prix, so you would see those type of meetings. You'd see really world famous riders competing individually and whatever Wimbledon rider was involved, you know, the heat leaders that that would be the people voting. So that was yeah, the team racing was very much a kind of team spirit for me, and anything individual was down to any Wimbledon rider of the day really. 00:21:46:13 - 00:21:56:08 Speaker 1 We talked about going to the Speedway. Can you tell us about any other entertainment that was available on speedway nights? 00:21:56:10 - 00:22:01:20 Speaker 2 They did very well at the catering. 00:22:01:22 - 00:22:31:16 Speaker 2 I don't remember. I mean, there was music played in the stadium, but I can't remember anything specific. Program sellers, you know, that kind of thing. You know, obviously I was very young when I started, so if there was betting that I wasn't aware of it or I had no interest in it. So ever. So I've never bet on anything my whole life so that that disinterest has followed through. 00:22:31:16 - 00:22:47:10 Speaker 2 Really. So I wasn't aware. I mean, you know, the people inside, it was all about we'll have our food and then we'll go down on the benches on the high, high stools and, you know, watch the racing from a more comfortable position. Really. 00:22:47:12 - 00:22:54:21 Speaker 1 You touched on your time going to home racers. Did you travel to away matches or overseas at all? 00:22:54:23 - 00:23:04:18 Speaker 2 Rarely. Rarely. Because you know, I mean I left school early 70s. So. 00:23:04:20 - 00:23:29:06 Speaker 2 Career was quite busy from the off really. And yeah, I would occasionally go, you know, I remember going to the Somerset Rebels and Newport Wasps. So places that were reasonably accessible from London and the London teams that were still racing at the time. 00:23:29:08 - 00:23:54:05 Speaker 2 I haven't didn't watch Speedway much. When I was in Poland, I used to go to a few races, but that was more just like the sport and like watching it. What I did do regularly was watch the World Grand Prix, the Wimbledon, the Wimbledon, the Hour National, the great British heat of it. And one of those stands out in particular. 00:23:54:07 - 00:24:25:00 Speaker 2 And because I persuaded my wife to go to a sports event with me, and it was speedway at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff, and that's quite fascinating venue, because it was built with the ability to take the pitch off and lay assigned to track down, you know, so that that whole pitch is actually on pallets underneath. And once you start, you can actually remove the whole thing and lay down something completely new, really forward thinking. 00:24:25:00 - 00:24:57:22 Speaker 2 I think for a stadium and for different uses. And there was a rider there called Chris Harris, Chris Bomber Harris, as his nickname goes, he's still racing today, but speedway is quite a tough race. Once you get, you know, the start of it's crucial instead of the gating and getting in to that. And if you've established a lead at the end of the first heat of four, you know, it was quite difficult for people then to come past you even if they were at second or third position. 00:24:57:22 - 00:25:29:19 Speaker 2 But so Chris Harris, who was the English rep in that final, left the first bend in last position and there was some distance already between him and the first, but in four heats, incredibly, he came from last to first, overtaken right on the final bend and just getting to the and the stadium just erupted. You know, it was just you know so that was an amazing feeling to be part of that. 00:25:29:19 - 00:25:52:05 Speaker 2 And I think everybody in the stadium felt it as well. We had a British champion and yeah, he'd done the almost impossible in speedway racing to come out of that first bend in last place and then end up being first. So, I mean, he drove like a complete maniac that night. I mean, what speeds were him trying to get passed and then going around those corners? 00:25:52:06 - 00:26:15:05 Speaker 2 I hate to think he's probably a lucky, lucky man that he didn't come off, but yeah. Hence the bomber thing. So so yeah, that was probably since Wimbledon. That was a real high point for me and my wife really enjoyed it. So that was good. Something else we could share. 00:26:15:07 - 00:26:24:15 Speaker 1 Touch you on the fact that you're local. You're from Wimbledon. Can you tell us what the role of the speedway was, along with the other sports in the area? 00:26:24:17 - 00:26:49:07 Speaker 2 I mean, I mean, this whole stadium and area has just an amazing sports history. So Wimbledon Stadium was in many ways years and years ahead of its time. So, you know, we had a badminton world champion squash champion because they were squash and tennis courts on it as well. Obviously we had Wimbledon tennis. 00:26:49:09 - 00:27:18:06 Speaker 2 The first ever international speedway meeting was here at Wimbledon. You know we hosted internationals, the Greyhounds. It was the home of the Greyhound Derby. There was even things like the stadium hosted a world heavyweight champion about. So it was one of the premier area in sports for particularly the stadium that had the greyhounds, speedway. And I think we had. 00:27:18:08 - 00:27:39:07 Speaker 2 I think it was a squash world champion, Jonah Barrington. But what they also did in the 70s was they opened the first paddle court in the country. It didn't take off. But look at it today, you know, and that's a huge, huge thing now. And it's finished with there's one back in the gym next, next door to us. 00:27:39:09 - 00:28:15:00 Speaker 2 But I think the stadium owners had quite a unique and forward thinking approach to making a stadium be multi-use in terms of paying for itself, not necessarily for the team that was a tenant in here, but, you know, and obviously then stock cars and banger racing came in as well to add to the mix. Even the football club, though, we were an amateur side, you know, some of the things we did as an amateur club, we would go on world tours and you know, we've got some of the print things. 00:28:15:00 - 00:28:41:04 Speaker 2 It was like each player was given a rule book of you will be here at a certain time, and this is how you dress and sort of thing that if you hand it to people nowadays, they're just like, you know, so so yeah, we, we hosted the football, hosted the women's international matches back in the 70s as well. 00:28:41:06 - 00:29:10:03 Speaker 2 And I don't know if you remember it's a knockout. But yeah, they held parts of its knock out on the pitch as well. So yeah I mean the tennis everybody knows you know that's the brand leader in sports. So but Wimbledon itself has got this just an incredible sporting history. And it's really exciting to be able to live here and you know be able to experience that. 00:29:10:05 - 00:29:18:16 Speaker 1 If we go back to Speedway, could you tell me how Wimbledon Speedway changed over time? 00:29:18:18 - 00:29:48:17 Speaker 2 I don't think there was much of a change in terms of the equipment. Health and safety improved, but I don't recall that ever at any stage being an air fence at Wimbledon. And that's crucial because I think the introduction of the air fences reduced the hospitalisation casualties by about 75%. It was incredible because if you're going to go into an air bag, that's one thing. 00:29:48:17 - 00:30:15:04 Speaker 2 If you're going to go into a metal fence, that's something quite different. But in terms of the bikes themselves, they pretty much their 500 cc bikes, and it's how you tune them and how you race them. I mean, they're fast, they accelerate faster than a Formula One car or they certainly did at the time anyway. So yeah, I mean, it was a really, really unusual sport and actually a very dangerous sport. 00:30:15:04 - 00:30:28:03 Speaker 2 So, so I think the changes that came were more around health and safety than the actual, you know, the equipment didn't change very much at all and the tracks didn't change. 00:30:28:05 - 00:30:40:00 Speaker 1 Touching on the, on, on, on the speedway itself and, and the history of it, which we've done. Could you tell me a bit more about the closure of the Wimbledon Speedway and how it affected you personally? 00:30:40:02 - 00:31:03:23 Speaker 2 Less so the speedway, because from the mid 80s, you know, it was only if I was in the area I'd go and watch. So it wasn't a regular thing for me. And when it, when it shut in 91, there was still love. I guess that feeling like if your child has gone, you know, because it was a major part of me growing up, those formative years. 00:31:03:23 - 00:31:31:20 Speaker 2 But so I felt really sad that that and then it was resurrected in 2002. And, you know, interestingly, that was the same year that Wimbledon football had to resurrect itself as well. So was the two things. So that really pulled me back into the area on a more regular basis. And although the speedway was racing at what inessential was the third division. 00:31:31:20 - 00:32:01:23 Speaker 2 So the speedway racing wasn't of the standard that, you know, I used to see, but it was really good to see it back. And there's all these concerns about financial viability, etc. but if you're tenants in the stadium and you're paying a rent and you don't have access to any of the the only money you earn, it's the ticket money, you know, everything else around it go goes to the stadium owners. 00:32:02:00 - 00:32:05:16 Speaker 1 How did the closure of Woman and Speedway affect you? 00:32:05:18 - 00:32:34:23 Speaker 2 I think it was just 91. I wasn't living locally anymore, but it still felt like an important part of my childhood had gone really. And it was a I was really interesting because yeah, Speedway stopped in 91 and the football club moved. So, you know, they did. Both of those things happen at the same time. So the speedway stopped and the football moved to Crystal Palace. 00:32:34:24 - 00:33:02:12 Speaker 2 And I hated that place with a vengeance. You know, it wasn't Sellers Park for me. It was soulless park. So yeah, the two things were a bit of a kind of emotional whammy, really, and thinking, My God, you know, that was a for me, that was every week and it's gone. And then 2002, the speedway started up again and Wimbledon football was resurrected. 00:33:02:14 - 00:33:29:03 Speaker 2 So that was quite exciting. It's kind of weird. I hadn't made that comparative before, but actually, yeah, both sports moved or finished and then restarted exactly the same year. Kind of weird. Must be something about that. But yeah, and the racing wasn't the same standard that it was. And I just think it was really hard for them, you know, financially because they were tenants. 00:33:29:03 - 00:33:57:17 Speaker 2 And I believe that in 2005, when it closed completely, it was because basically the landlords put the rent up and it wasn't viable. It wasn't that it wasn't viable in terms of ticket receipts and everything, if they'd had a stake in the stadium. But, you know, they basically they priced them out and then they concreted over the shale track so they could hold more stock car racing and everything. 00:33:57:17 - 00:34:29:16 Speaker 2 So, you know, I would very much say that the stadium owners killed the speedway, by the way it was structured then, and it was okay when there was 20,000 people coming through the gate. But if there was only 5000, you know, you lost 75% of your revenue, you know, becomes non-viable. I think speedway generally is just made a lot of mistakes over the years that have led to its, you know, really shocking decline. 00:34:29:17 - 00:34:34:17 Speaker 2 You think after the Second World War, speedway was big as football. 00:34:34:19 - 00:34:45:03 Speaker 1 You touched on the excitement of going back. Can you tell us about how you felt the last time we went to the Wimbledon Speedway, knowing it was the last time? 00:34:45:04 - 00:35:08:15 Speaker 2 Just really sad that, you know, it always felt shortsighted to me. I suppose in anything I've done in life, I've always looked for, you know, slight clubs that stop selling programs and you think, why have you done that? Because, I mean, in my head, the immediate thing for me is like, well, why don't you just make them a seasoned subscription? 00:35:08:16 - 00:35:32:03 Speaker 2 Then you print them and you know you've already got the money for them. You can carry on. Why stop it? And the speed was very much the same. The speedway, you know, if they'd left the level where it was, it got by and it could have continued and should have continued in my opinion. So. But owners are greedy, aren't they? 00:35:32:03 - 00:35:43:16 Speaker 2 Land owners and sports quite often fall victim to something outside of the sport, but once it's gone, it's very difficult to resurrect it. 00:35:43:17 - 00:35:50:24 Speaker 1 Looking back at your entire history with Wimbledon Speedway, what did Wimbledon Speedway actually mean to you? 00:35:51:01 - 00:36:18:10 Speaker 2 It was my Thursday nights. It was mapped out. You know, it's where I went on a Thursday evening. And yeah, it was it was just exciting. And it was really, you know, to feel a part of it. You know, even as a kid, you know, just being able to fill in the races and keep the scores. And then I'd go back and I'd read the programs and then I'd find them away neatly in order, in pristine condition. 00:36:18:12 - 00:36:28:19 Speaker 2 So there was a whole kind of ritual to it, really. And yeah, I loved it. I really did, did love the excitement of it. 00:36:28:21 - 00:36:36:21 Speaker 1 Is there anything you'd like to tell us that we haven't covered? 00:36:36:23 - 00:37:03:15 Speaker 2 I guess what most people wouldn't know is that the stadium itself came about through American money that was being laundered. So the Cairns family that built the stadium were commissioned from American money. And I've given to understand that it was related to criminal activities in America. So they were stadium builders anyway. They were also directors of West Ham. 00:37:03:20 - 00:37:26:16 Speaker 2 So there was a football element in there. They were stadium builders. They weren't stadium owners. This is things you find out, you know, being part of the heritage thing and talking to the grandson and great grandson. Now basically they weren't paid for building the stadium. So, you know, they decided that they were going to run the stadium, become stadium owners. 00:37:26:16 - 00:37:55:04 Speaker 2 So they introduced. So it strange sometimes the chain of events that that lead to something being established. And the fact that I think we most things is, you know, what's the backstory to it. So yeah, possibly mafia money, you know, builders becoming stadium owners and racers, their ability to introduce multi-sports approach that back in the day wasn't that common. 00:37:55:04 - 00:38:24:19 Speaker 2 And you know, even to add in the other sports as well around the site. So I am a great believer in fate that there's a chain of events happen. And it's an interesting chain of events that came to that, that speedway stadium and Greyhound existing. And, you know, it was very much just part of the community and you'd find thousands and thousands of local people in there on us. 00:38:24:19 - 00:38:50:00 Speaker 2 I think when I first started, it was it might have been Wednesdays they changed. And London clubs are quite organized, not so much when there was about 20 of them, but certainly when I started going is that London teams generally wouldn't race on the same night. So, you know, there'd be a race you could go to speedway in the capital seven nights a week if you wanted to, and I'm sure that some people did. 00:38:50:02 - 00:38:58:19 Speaker 2 But yeah, that's just a little nod to how the stadium arrived here in 1928. 00:38:58:21 - 00:39:04:09 Speaker 1 That's us with questions. Do we have any other questions that anybody else would like to ask you? One from the back. 00:39:04:10 - 00:39:08:18 Speaker 3 Could you tell us about the statue outside that came about? 00:39:08:19 - 00:39:09:12 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:39:09:13 - 00:39:12:03 Speaker 4 You'd answer towards Pino. 00:39:12:05 - 00:39:19:05 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about the one he was, statue outside and how that came about? 00:39:19:07 - 00:39:52:17 Speaker 2 So I'm. I'm the only person left from the club that was involved in the original stakeholders meetings for the building of the stadium and that government, both councils, builders, Health and safety, Environmental agency. And they brought me in because of the you know, it was quite Sparky about the previous sports. The greyhound people weren't happy and the stock car people weren't happy and, you know, understandably so. 00:39:52:19 - 00:40:34:08 Speaker 2 But my job was to to mediate through that difficult period, really and to, you know, bring my, my thoughts on how we could, you know, respect the site for its heritage and its history and how we went about that. So there was a commitment, you know, certainly from me, from from what became wish to, you know, capturing that in a way that kind of embraced the sport and perhaps defused some of the the myths and the misunderstandings over it. 00:40:34:10 - 00:40:58:10 Speaker 2 So it was always our intention. You know, we started off with the football with a football stadium and football stadium was hosting us. The only thing from the old stadium that English Heritage wanted to preserve was the mic, the Miller mosaic, which had been strangely positioned just outside the gents urinals in the old stadium. 00:40:58:12 - 00:41:17:09 Speaker 2 Which wasn't great and he'd been put in the floor. It's tiny little mosaics. I mean, it's a great piece and it is a historical piece. I doubt whether it be made today, but the only way of getting it out was literally to dig down and then have a specialist machine dig across. So when it was lifted out of the ground. 00:41:17:10 - 00:41:39:22 Speaker 2 It was embedded in two tons of concrete, which wasn't in particularly good condition either. And though the football chief executive time said, oh, don't worry, we'll do that, we'll host that at the stadium. He had no idea what it was and he didn't ask me for any advice or he said, no, we'll do that. We'll make it part of the new stadium. 00:41:39:22 - 00:42:10:20 Speaker 2 So the first thing Galliard did was get it off their land because it was a. And then we had the builder here saying, who the hell was dumped? A two ton slab of concrete in the entrance to the building site, which the Mick The Miller mosaic. And so that was the first challenge we had was, was to install that. And, you know, I brave or reckless, you know, my view is don't put it back in the floor, let's tape it up on its side. 00:42:10:21 - 00:42:25:18 Speaker 2 And in case it's like a picture frame. And that's what we did downstairs. And then we moved on to the speedway. How do we recognise the speedway? Had the speedway bar here within the stadium. 00:42:25:20 - 00:42:47:14 Speaker 2 But I was always a bit like the football statue as well is about, you know, having that Womble spirit of reuse and recycle. So the football statue came out of a half of a two ton oak tree that had fallen, and we're planted it, and that was carved out. And then I wanted to continue the same, same theme, really. 00:42:47:14 - 00:43:09:20 Speaker 2 So that whole Speedway statue, which incredibly considering how popular sport was, was the first, the first and only speedway statue in the country. But the whole thing is made out of scrap metal in relation to the old stadiums, a bit old tools, bits of old bikes, bits of old fencing, old signage. 00:43:09:22 - 00:43:34:18 Speaker 2 And with these things, you know, you go to somebody that's going to create something, you know, scrap metal sculptor I didn't know do these people exist? And yeah. So yeah. And that's what led to it. I met up with John from Don's den, and we went on a, on a journey to raise the funds and build the Speedway statue. 00:43:34:20 - 00:44:05:16 Speaker 2 What I would say is that what we've done is primarily we we grasped the nettle and we certainly know people remember with the with the Greyhound that we had, people in here swore they'd never come into the stadium. So we've managed to, you know, go on a journey with those supporters and appreciate us. And what's key to it, I think, is this filming process and being able to capture what it meant. 00:44:05:18 - 00:44:23:00 Speaker 2 You know, I still have a dream that about bringing Wimbledon's speedway back and I think it would be viable and I think it would suit this generation. So it's a bit like the football stadium in the club, really. There's a pipe dream there, but sometimes dreams come true. Okay. 00:44:23:02 - 00:44:30:03 Speaker 1 Are there any other plans to showcase any other speedway history heritage memorabilia within the stadium? 00:44:30:04 - 00:45:03:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. So when this film comes out, one of the big display cabinets in reception is being given over to Speedway. So we do have a, you know, speedway artefacts to put on display, and that will be a permanent display then, as will the greyhounds as well. So it's a kind of nod to it. You know, it's a football stadium and for whatever reason, you know, working democracy, people felt that the museum should be kept for the football. 00:45:03:08 - 00:45:37:12 Speaker 2 But the club's really good at letting us use other spaces, like being able to put the mosaic and the speedway statue up and the storyboards and having a presence in the stadium. But also we've our old display cabinets from the museum. Seven of them have gone to the major Merton libraries, so they will become multi-sport displays. So speedway will live on now across the borough as a whole, just not in Wimbledon, certainly in terms of its memories. 00:45:37:14 - 00:45:43:13 Speaker 3 Could you tell us a bit about the relationship between speedway and greyhound racing? 00:45:43:15 - 00:45:48:03 Speaker 1 Could you tell us a bit about the relationship between speedway and ground greyhound racing? 00:45:48:04 - 00:46:20:03 Speaker 2 Yeah, I was always anti animal sports, so I had very little interest in greyhound racing. But there would be benefit nights kind of complimentary you know across the sports and even with the football as well. So I remember that there was a Barry Briggs fundraiser and there was a football match at Plow Lane. So it was some of the Wimbledon people against some of the Wimbledon speedway riders in the football match program for that. 00:46:20:03 - 00:46:36:00 Speaker 2 So. Yeah. So you know, all of the sports at one stage that were along Plough Lane, there was a relationship and there was Intersport support as well. On occasion. 00:46:36:02 - 00:46:37:23 Speaker 1 What was the original stadium built for? 00:46:37:24 - 00:46:59:17 Speaker 2 It was designed for dog racing, and it was interesting where the money was coming from and the fact that it was an annual sport that involved a lot of betting and probably a high level of skullduggery as well, so that that was its primary function in terms of its construction. But the speedway and greyhounds actually started at the same time. 00:46:59:17 - 00:47:31:19 Speaker 2 So speedway was a fairly new sport. I think Graham was relatively new though dog racing be going on for a long time, but speedway was a new sport and I think they had the foresight to think, well, we've got the stadium and we might race dogs three times a week. But you know, that's why I think, you know though they were builders and they weren't sports owners or developers, they had a good, good idea for being able to maximise the stadium and for to make it multi-purpose. 00:47:31:21 - 00:47:37:04 Speaker 1 Can you tell us a bit about the various points around the track that the visitors and regulars used to? 00:47:37:06 - 00:48:02:17 Speaker 2 Okay, so so the main stand, which I was and in the area that was behind glass was, you know, right by the home straight where it's the start and the finish and then the pits were down on the as you were looking down at the pits would have been on the left hand side. The starting gate would have been fairly central to where, where you were in the main stand. 00:48:02:19 - 00:48:37:10 Speaker 2 And then the first bend, which is where all the riders all of a sudden come together and quite often nudge each other. I think they were called the Pit Ben loonies. So there was a group of people there that were very, very vocal who drank quite a lot, I believe. And then there was people dotted all around, you know, they were standing all, all the way around the track so you could pick a position that you wanted really for me, you know, it was comfortable. 00:48:37:12 - 00:49:03:19 Speaker 2 I had a great view. I had somewhere something to lean on, a comfy seat. And I was right by where the start and finish was. So. Interestingly, in the football stadium, if you drew a line across from the centre to the east end, the middle of the east end is where the start and the finish of the race would be. 00:49:03:21 - 00:49:26:06 Speaker 2 So that's the smaller stand on the other side that runners runs adjacent to Greyhound Parade pedestrian precinct. And we do have a plan at some stage to, you know, in that halfway line above the stand is to put some kind of recognition there because not only was the the start and finish, it was also the finish line for the Greyhound. 00:49:26:06 - 00:49:30:15 Speaker 2 So I think something over there recognising that would be really good. 00:49:30:17 - 00:49:39:00 Speaker 1 Could you tell us about the geographical link between where the speedway stadium was and where the football stadium sits now? 00:49:39:06 - 00:50:11:22 Speaker 2 Okay. This site has got an interesting history. I mean, it's on a floodplain and it was generally considered quite waste ground. However, the football club from 1910 to 1912 played here in Copper Mill Lane. And most people don't know that because it happened. We left in 1912, 16 years before the speedway and the greyhound started. And they say life cyclical, and certainly for Wimbledon football. 00:50:11:23 - 00:50:32:12 Speaker 2 We've come back to one of our early starting points before we moved about a couple of hundred meters up the road to a purpose built football stadium. So we moved into there in 1912. Both stadiums were on Plow Lane, literally five minutes walk in between the two. 00:50:32:14 - 00:50:59:04 Speaker 2 So the development of this stadium was 16 years after it ceased to be a sporting. It kind of returned back to being a kind of a bit of industrial wasteland area really, that regularly got flooded. So it was an interesting choice to build the stadium. And, you know, Wimbledon, they were one of the first stadiums of both sports in the country, both greyhound and speedway. 00:50:59:05 - 00:51:27:08 Speaker 2 The speedway start in 1928. Wimbledon started. I started in 28. So yeah, I felt it was really important to, you know, loving history is to recognise the fact that this stadium has so much history attached to it, and not only the stadium, the area, Wandle first commercial waterway, and then once that silted up, it was the first iron railway in the country. 00:51:27:10 - 00:52:03:14 Speaker 2 The first strike by female workers was in a factory that was adjacent to this, so kind of pivotal in that movement as well. So this whole little area of what used to be called Summers Town is kind of just a hotbed of really, really interesting history, not just sports, but there's other things around it that we hopefully what we're planning to do is use the stadium precinct to tell or to bring back what's what Summers Town was, because now it's just an area. 00:52:03:15 - 00:52:36:01 Speaker 2 People talk about it, but it's not really recognised as a but there's so much individual industrial and sporting history here in Summers Town. So with the with the sports building next to the stadium. And if you see there's quite large eight by four windows that they've covered in a really horrible grey vinyl that's peeling and looking filthy. So we're trying to get permission to actually put a different piece of history on all of those. 00:52:36:02 - 00:52:51:04 Speaker 2 And, you know, not just about the sports of this stadium, but all of the immediately adjacent area. And hopefully, you know, it just makes it a bit more of a tourist destination. Put some of this town back on the map and recognise its heritage. 00:52:51:06 - 00:52:56:22 Speaker 1 Can you share any stories that are related to Speedway? 00:52:56:24 - 00:53:20:00 Speaker 2 There was a relationship between the Cairns and the Cray Twins. To what degree? I'm not sure, but certainly we have pictures of the Crater Inns and royalty being in the stadium and perhaps even at the same time. So, you know, right from the start, you know, they could have well, the money that funded it could well have been criminal. 00:53:20:02 - 00:53:52:22 Speaker 2 There was betting scandals and certainly was with Speedway, as it was with the other sports as well. So I guess there's always been a kind of undercurrent of people, you know, making money or doing something, you know, underhand that devalues the sport. And that was here and it was down the road as well, where, you know, basically people lined their pockets on the back of the sports that meant the world to the local community. 00:53:52:24 - 00:54:07:23 Speaker 2 Yeah. So it's a checkered history. It's an interesting history. And I think for all the sports, there's an element of what you'd see as criminal activity and money issues, etc. around it. 00:54:08:00 - 00:54:14:21 Speaker 1 You touched on royalty. Can you tell us anything about the connection between Wimbledon Speedway and royalty? 00:54:14:23 - 00:54:42:13 Speaker 2 I don't think the speedway was so much for connection, but the greyhound racing definitely was. And you know, the royalty would come down for the Derby, which has hosted there occasionally. Somebody if there was a world championship on the speedway, you might have royal visitors. But primarily the royalty element was very much in connection with the greyhound racing. 00:54:42:15 - 00:55:09:19 Speaker 2 But another little known fact, just this is not speedway related, but the electric plant we've got next door to us. The substation is the backup for, should we say in this really it's the backup thing for the for the government and for the Buckingham Palace. So if stuff goes down in the centre. This is the backup power supply. 00:55:09:21 - 00:55:36:01 Speaker 2 And there are also there's tunnels underneath that go from here into central London, all on Copper Mill Lane. You know, what a hotbed of activity. And, you know, always feel like, you know, wherever you turn a page and there's something more pops out, you know, like, like that beneath the electricity substation. So who knew? 00:55:36:03 - 00:55:45:09 Speaker 5 Sorry. One more, because you know so much about the history. Do you know what the long, long ago was on this site? Only kind of. 00:55:45:10 - 00:55:46:05 Speaker 2 It was wasteland. 00:55:46:06 - 00:55:46:23 Speaker 5 It was. 00:55:47:00 - 00:56:30:18 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah, a bit like the common. It was considered, you know, nonproductive land. And, you know, we have suffered a flood. I think one of the most iconic speedway pictures I saw, I remember and I was the fact that the stadium was underwater to a level that they were trying to rescue the speedway bike. So we've got a picture of a rowing boat where the rowing boat came from, I'm not sure, but so we've got somebody rowing a boat with people up to their waist in water, with a speedway bike on the boat coming out of the stadium to try and get it away from, from the water ingress. 00:56:30:18 - 00:56:52:22 Speaker 2 So, so I think that that fundamentally, you know, yes, there's been advancements, but the football clubs are being flooded since we've been here. It's an ongoing problem really. But that's you know, I think people are finding that across the country, if you build on floodplains, it comes with challenges.