00:00:00:09 - 00:00:27:10 Speaker 1 This is Dave Clifton conducting an interview for the Speedway at Wimbledon Stadium or Oral History Project on the 21st of April, 2026. Good morning. First, can you tell me your name? Jim, hon. James. James. But prefer to be called Jim. Jim. And when we. Where were you born? Jim? Wimbledon. And when were you born? Which year? 1945. Okay. 00:00:27:12 - 00:00:35:05 Speaker 1 I hope for the 17th. Last week. Okay. Happy birthday. And what did your parents do for a living? 00:00:35:07 - 00:00:47:11 Speaker 2 Oh, my. My dad done various jobs and my mum some various jobs. And until when I was working here, I ended up getting the old man a job here. 00:00:47:13 - 00:00:57:02 Speaker 1 Okay. And I want to talk to you about the early days of Wimbledon or you're really involvement with people then Stadium. So what years did you go to Speedway Stadium? 00:00:57:03 - 00:01:20:09 Speaker 2 I saw my first speedway meeting in 1952 down here. And I mean, I must have come with people, but I don't recollect coming on. Our pestered my dad to let me go to speedway because I only lived up the road and he was a bit reluctant. But on this particular night he gave me the money to get myself in and whatever. 00:01:20:11 - 00:01:45:03 Speaker 2 I don't remember coming down with any other lads, but on that night Wimbledon were racing against Harringay. I do remember that. I was seven years old and I got a riders autograph that night, an American rider, Ernie Rocky, and the next night he got killed at West Ham. Good grief. So yeah, but I got hooked on speed by night. 00:01:45:09 - 00:02:09:15 Speaker 2 Over the next couple of years, I would come periodically when the old man allowed. But then when I was that bit older, it became a thing that every Monday night I was at Wimbledon. And then when I got a little bit older still, I would travel around with the supporters club in that. But we had loads of teams in London at the end. 00:02:09:17 - 00:02:21:20 Speaker 2 So I used to be able to use public transport when I was a teenager and go to New Cross, Wembley, West Ham, you know, Harringay. We had the tracks. 00:02:21:22 - 00:02:29:17 Speaker 1 Okay. So can you tell us about your first visit to Wimbledon, how it felt when you first came into the stadium, who you came with? Well. 00:02:29:22 - 00:02:47:02 Speaker 2 As I say, I must have come with, but I don't remember who or what. I just remember coming down here and I was alone. And I remember coming in and I was over on the third bend where that ball is. And I was lifted over the fence onto the dog track because it was so packed. And this is what they'd done with the kids. 00:02:47:03 - 00:03:05:14 Speaker 2 They packed, pushed them, put something on a dog track and and yeah, I mean, it was amazing. It was absolutely amazing. And then when you could actually see these guys afterwards as close as well. It was it was magic. 00:03:05:16 - 00:03:11:00 Speaker 1 Okay. So what were your impressions were sites. The sound smells. 00:03:11:03 - 00:03:31:12 Speaker 2 Smell the smell. There was something about the mixture of Castrol and methanol. It just is no smell like it in motor racing in my eye. And I've been all, you know, different racing. Motorsports never picked up that smell that you got at Speedway. 00:03:31:14 - 00:03:41:24 Speaker 1 Okay. And you've mentioned briefly your family didn't have any history in in Speedway. Did not any family. Did your children come to Speedway? 00:03:42:01 - 00:04:01:23 Speaker 2 My youngest son. He he pestered me for quite a while. And and because I knew Ivan Major, he always called me younger brother from when I met him in 1957. 00:04:02:00 - 00:04:23:12 Speaker 2 So I spoke to Ivan and I said, Ivan, he keeps pestering me. What do you reckon? And he said, send him up to Manchester. He said, I'll, I'll let him right a bike round Bellevue. And and we took it from there. And he went up there a couple of times and spent a week with Ivan, and he just said it run out of fuel before Royal. 00:04:23:12 - 00:04:44:13 Speaker 2 So just keep going until it stops each time. And he got hooked. Then he had an accident at the Sheffield training track with Ivan and Ivan. They checked, he had him checked over by the medical people and he knew he was knocked about a bit, but he sent him home that night after putting him back on a bike for four laps and then took him off and he beat. 00:04:44:14 - 00:04:59:24 Speaker 2 He then sent him home that night and he said when he gets off the train, he looks like a speedway rider. And the first thing I said to him was, is he limping then? It was a spooked. My riders tried, tried a limp. 00:05:00:01 - 00:05:08:05 Speaker 2 But he did race. He started with Canterbury then and ended up at Exeter until he had a bad accident. Anyway. Yeah, okay. 00:05:08:08 - 00:05:16:09 Speaker 1 I wanted to talk about the experience of being a fan of of Speedway. So can you describe the stadium? 00:05:16:11 - 00:05:49:01 Speaker 2 The stadium on the one street you had a grandstand, which was the stand there was bombed during the war. So in the probably the 50s it was rebuilt. Nice stadium surrounding was all covered. It completely covered stadium and it was an ideal place for big events. It had the, you know, the covered in accommodation. If the meeting went meeting, the fans didn't get wet, but it was a comfortable stadium. 00:05:49:02 - 00:05:59:01 Speaker 2 It was a. And as I got older and come to work here I loved it. 00:05:59:03 - 00:06:05:03 Speaker 1 Okay. Was there a particular place where you like to watch from? 00:06:05:05 - 00:06:32:09 Speaker 2 Probably to center green, because it's the you stand on the center green on a corner when they're coming in for a bit of power on seems faster than being this side of the fence. And that was my experience when my son was racing. He always seemed faster if he was out in the center green closer. But I used to like quite often on a Monday night because it was Mondays and ends. 00:06:32:11 - 00:06:42:03 Speaker 2 I could get out on the center green and I be on the first turn. Get for coming in with everything going was quite magic. 00:06:42:05 - 00:06:47:22 Speaker 1 Okay. And you said when you were quite young, you came on your own, on your own money. So was it quite affordable to. 00:06:48:03 - 00:07:00:16 Speaker 2 Know that paid. But I had to pester him for the money. But later on, as I started doing little paper rounds and things like that, then yeah, I used to use my money to come in and it was a fordable. 00:07:00:18 - 00:07:03:18 Speaker 1 Okay. And was it busy? How busy? Yeah, yeah. 00:07:03:19 - 00:07:22:03 Speaker 2 As I say, when I first started, when I first came here in 1952, you would be kids. Little kids would be over the ground fence, onto the ground track and sit there because you wouldn't have seen. It was so packed. Yeah. It was. They were crowds. Good crowds. 00:07:22:05 - 00:07:27:22 Speaker 1 Okay. And can you tell us about the stadium? Was the merchandise and programs available? 00:07:27:23 - 00:07:51:13 Speaker 2 Yes. Yeah. And on speedway nights there was the photographs, you know, from previous week's meetings. And to be able to purchase, I don't think so much what they have to say to jackets and and the tops. It was more photographs in days and rosettes and. 00:07:51:15 - 00:07:58:23 Speaker 2 And skulls of the members of red and yellow Scarves. Yeah. 00:07:59:00 - 00:08:03:01 Speaker 1 Excuse me. 00:08:03:03 - 00:08:05:03 Speaker 1 Was there food and drink available in there? 00:08:05:07 - 00:08:25:11 Speaker 2 Do you know, I don't remember. I cannot remember whether there was. I know there was Bowers in the stadium, so possibly. Yeah, possibly was food outlets. And. But because I didn't win the bars. So. But yeah. So. 00:08:25:13 - 00:08:33:07 Speaker 1 And can you describe a typical race night. How did a night involve. 00:08:33:09 - 00:09:02:08 Speaker 2 Well you would queue up outside so you're always queued to get in. And in the early days of my come in here and once you was in, you knew where you was going to go. You know, it's like most things you find a favorite spot. And mine was on the first bend with the first Ben Loonies. And one of those guys that I got to know. 00:09:02:10 - 00:09:25:13 Speaker 2 He became later years editor of Speed by Star magazine, Richard Clarke. And and so, you know, he sustained with all his cronies as a kid and and it was above the pits, right above the pits. And the atmosphere was great. Absolutely. Yeah. 00:09:25:15 - 00:09:35:11 Speaker 1 Okay. Can we talk a bit about the experience of being a fan of Speedway? Were any particular riders or teams that you you followed? 00:09:35:13 - 00:09:38:11 Speaker 2 Not really. 00:09:38:13 - 00:09:45:07 Speaker 2 You know, I mean the Wimbledon boys in them days, you know, they, they. 00:09:45:09 - 00:10:37:15 Speaker 2 They all became your favorites and you just upset if anyone got hurt. You know, that's the worst part about any Motorola or any sport anything. Is anybody getting there. That's the last, last thing you need to see or you know and but now I didn't I can't say that I had a real out and out favorite whereby you sort of latched on to one person because later on in years, from 57 onwards, after meeting Ivan and we became that close, I got to know the riders that in my earlier years I'd watched by used to be able to talk to him over in the workshops, and it put a little bit of different outlook on 00:10:37:15 - 00:11:03:20 Speaker 2 it and you know. But yeah, but I have one story on Ronnie Moore. If you're interested in a Ronnie Moore story, when I started working here on a Tuesday morning, I used to help Mack, who was the Speedway track man, regrade the track. I used to drive the track to the round for him before we could take the tarpaulin sheets off the ground track. 00:11:03:22 - 00:11:22:17 Speaker 2 And for 2 or 3 weeks on a Tuesday morning, Ronnie Moore came out and he'd get Mac and he'd say, said to him, going into the third turn, there's a, there's a little dip. You know, he keep feeling it. Anyway, Mac and I, we looked at this every Tuesday after he'd been out and said, well, he thought it wasn't it. 00:11:22:18 - 00:11:45:13 Speaker 2 And Mac said on one Tuesday morning he said, what we're going to do, we're just going to mark out a square. We're going to water it. We're going to tire packet. Anyway. With this done, we didn't dig or anything. And the following week, Mac and I was in the pits after Ronnie came in from heat one. He won heat one. 00:11:45:13 - 00:11:59:10 Speaker 2 And we we said to him, well, what about the dip? Is the dip gone going into the third turn? And he said, perfect and we hadn't touched it. 00:11:59:12 - 00:12:16:23 Speaker 2 Later on in years. I, I spent a couple of days with Ronnie in Christchurch in New Zealand and, and I said to him, mentioned it about it, you know, and he gave me a clout round the back of the you. 00:12:17:00 - 00:12:44:23 Speaker 2 But yeah, lots of little stories you could think of once I got to know the guys, you know, never great bunch of guys. Every one of them. So but speedway it's still in me blood. Now I don't go much. If I go to speed by now go to Paul. And. But I watched the Polish speedway. Now I watch that on the telly and any Polish speedway on there. 00:12:44:23 - 00:12:54:12 Speaker 2 But I have been out there a few times. Richard been out with me a few times, but that's where Speedway is now. Is Poland okay? 00:12:54:14 - 00:13:02:00 Speaker 1 Can you tell me where the different teams in Wimbledon, were they different levels of Wimbledon? 00:13:02:00 - 00:13:09:21 Speaker 2 Was in the top league. They was in the I think they called it the National League. 00:13:09:23 - 00:13:22:15 Speaker 2 And through the late 50s to probably mid 60s they were the premier team. They were the team winning everything. And. 00:13:22:17 - 00:13:50:18 Speaker 2 They, you know, they had a group of riders, probably one of maybe two world champions, Ronnie Moore, Barry Briggs, Ron how should have been. But the big occasions something just went wrong. But they had a team from 1 to 7 all gelled and all worked with each other and helped each other. And you know, they were a team and I had a good team manager in Berlin. 00:13:50:20 - 00:14:04:00 Speaker 2 They had a good promoter in Ronnie Green, but yeah, they was there was a great bunch of guys and all approachable. Not like today. Riders come and go. 00:14:04:02 - 00:14:11:17 Speaker 1 I think you've already mentioned the approachability. So. So I mean, how old were the riders before and after races here? 00:14:11:22 - 00:14:43:19 Speaker 2 Well I think everywhere in in those you could you could talk to a rider no matter the situation. And today a rider won't speak to you very rare. And then after the meeting Australia and Van to the airport flying off elsewhere. Whereas here Ronnie Green used to put money behind the bar in the grandstand. And any rider Harvey's that didn't go to the bar after the meeting was in trouble with Ronnie Green. 00:14:43:21 - 00:14:52:23 Speaker 2 They had to mingle with the fans and I thought it was about in those days. Now it's totally different. 00:14:53:00 - 00:15:03:21 Speaker 1 Okay. And what was the general demographic of the fans of sort of gender, ethnicity, of the fans in the stands? 00:15:03:23 - 00:15:35:14 Speaker 2 You had, you know, you went through the ages, you got the old buggers like me as I am now, but down to kids and you've got your visiting supporters. And it wasn't segregated like football. You know, you could turn up and go anywhere in the stadium. And but I never saw in all the years I have never seen like what you would see at football, where the fans get violent with each other. 00:15:35:19 - 00:16:02:04 Speaker 2 You go out at the stadium after a meeting, you could walk up Plow Lane or buddies from both sides, and it was great. And as a kid. You're listening to all these adults with all their stories of the nights racing. Yeah, that was great. It was just a pleasure to be there. You know? It's safe. Nice. 00:16:02:06 - 00:16:10:16 Speaker 1 So you mentioned foreign riders and sort of away fans. To what extent did foreign riders bring supporters with them? 00:16:10:18 - 00:16:38:17 Speaker 2 I think the Swedes, when they started coming over, they was a novelty. And so people come to see, you know, we've got bear in mind, in them days, people didn't travel so much like the everyday person in the street didn't travel so much. So when you got a group of Swedish riders come over to Racing British League, this was a novelty. 00:16:38:17 - 00:17:12:01 Speaker 2 And then it sort of escalated from there. And you got other nationalities coming in. You always had the Australians and New Zealanders. They were taken basic Singlish anyway. But when you started getting the Scandinavians and when the Russians come over. I think that was 1963 as a touring team. My dad went and picked all their bikes up in the stadium then and brought all their bikes to here because they were racing, doing a meeting there. 00:17:12:01 - 00:17:39:01 Speaker 2 But all that Polish squad were all here. But being in the Iron Curtain, you couldn't get some. They had so many minders, they had more minders than and you just could not get to the Russian riders, not even to try and speak to them, but they put people in on seats because Russians, this was a totally different ball game. 00:17:39:02 - 00:18:14:19 Speaker 2 Now they come from all around the place and people just, you know, they're not a novelty anymore. They're a speedway rider turn and do a job. And but back in the 60s and that foreign riders were a novelty and they were great. They put people in on seats. So because then their countries opened up for the Brits to be able to go and race in their countries, and that's what happens today. 00:18:14:20 - 00:18:21:00 Speaker 1 Okay. And can you tell us about any rivalries with other teams? 00:18:21:01 - 00:19:04:00 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think with the London teams, you you had your rivalry but no violence. It was verbal banter and and it put atmosphere into place. You know you I think back in the day I think Ipswich they, they were the more dominant visitors, their supporters, they would be the more verbal as I recall. But generally it was good banter and it's you know, and like the London ones because it was easier to travel in London. 00:19:04:02 - 00:19:13:01 Speaker 2 They brought lots of support with them. So. 00:19:13:03 - 00:19:16:21 Speaker 1 How important was Wimbledon Speedway in your social life? 00:19:16:23 - 00:19:37:15 Speaker 2 Oh yes, I kid it was. In actual fact, I met my wife here on a Greyhound night. You know, we're going away from speedway, but speedway was was a social thing every Monday night for me because you got to meet people, especially on the first bend with the with the first bend loonies. You got to know the guys. 00:19:37:16 - 00:19:59:14 Speaker 2 And and so it was a, it was a night you look forward to. But I used to, as I say, when I got that bit older and I could travel on public transport around London on my own, I used to go with some of these, these older guys and we'd go to West Ham or Wembley or, you know, wherever. 00:19:59:14 - 00:20:26:15 Speaker 2 And, and it was great and you felt safe and but here. Yeah, I mean I used to love all these supporters coming because to me then you could talk to people that come from places that you'd not been to and to you. To me it was like another world. But no, it's great. Great. It was a brilliant social night out. 00:20:26:16 - 00:20:29:14 Speaker 2 Family night out. 00:20:29:16 - 00:20:34:02 Speaker 1 Okay. 00:20:34:04 - 00:20:40:22 Speaker 1 Yeah. Tell us about relationships with other people in the Speedway community. Where were the pubs or clubs or any sort of organized? 00:20:40:23 - 00:20:51:12 Speaker 2 Well, you found it. Most tracks had a supporters club, and every year they had a, you know, in the season. 00:20:51:14 - 00:21:03:14 Speaker 2 Dance or dinner dance thing. And we used to go to them and because, you know, you won't see you again until March. 00:21:03:16 - 00:21:23:12 Speaker 2 I don't know, clubs had supporters clubs and but I wouldn't say I don't think pubs unless probably you had three pubs there, you had to plow white line and a for pubs to round the back. So probably fans were mingling in those. 00:21:23:14 - 00:21:25:14 Speaker 2 But. 00:21:25:16 - 00:21:30:12 Speaker 1 And can you tell us did you have any particular heroes in Speedway. 00:21:30:14 - 00:21:52:20 Speaker 2 Yeah my mate. I have a motor, I met him, my mum and dad basically took him in. Not long after, him and his wife arrived from New Zealand and he worked. He had to work through the week down here to earn some money. And they lived just a few doors up from where I lived in a bed set. 00:21:52:20 - 00:22:20:19 Speaker 2 And him and my old man, it was like five and son, I took a backward step, basically. But, you know, and from the to the day he died with still like that and and I still miss his yearly visits since like when he retired every year he'd come over 6 to 8 weeks and our place was the, the base. 00:22:20:19 - 00:22:38:11 Speaker 2 And and then I travel around Europe with him to go along trekking and. Yeah, it was great. He was even today, you know, 81 years old, he was still my era. 00:22:38:13 - 00:22:43:11 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about a particular memorable night for you at Wimbledon Stadium? 00:22:43:13 - 00:22:47:05 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:22:47:07 - 00:23:15:04 Speaker 2 The referee, I won't say his name. The referee that night picked on Ivan before the meeting and laid the law down to him. What he expected. And he excluded him in one race. And I said to say. But I went to the referee's box. He didn't know. He didn't know two years later that I had gone to the referee's box and that his finger stood out. 00:23:15:04 - 00:23:34:21 Speaker 2 And I I'm glad that I was stopped getting to the referee at that time, because I saw a totally different part of what the referee saw and like a lot of fans saw. And although he wasn't really. 00:23:34:23 - 00:23:38:23 Speaker 2 Liked down here. 00:23:39:00 - 00:23:55:00 Speaker 2 I think a lot of the fans that were where I was knew that he the wrong one had been excluded. And but I came and I went straight to the referee's box. 00:23:55:02 - 00:23:58:20 Speaker 1 And was there any entertainment or anything else? Speedway Knights. 00:23:58:23 - 00:24:16:01 Speaker 2 Yeah. Ronnie Green he, he used to do quite a bit of interval. He'd get like someone diving from 50ft up into a tank of all things like that on the green. 00:24:16:03 - 00:24:31:01 Speaker 2 But he got all manner of different bits of entertainment and, you know, between the match finishing and the second half starting and, and it kept the fans, kept them happy. 00:24:31:03 - 00:24:43:06 Speaker 2 If you spoke to a promoter today, I tell you where to go. You know, it's 15 races on your bike. Go. 00:24:43:08 - 00:24:52:05 Speaker 1 Okay. Can you tell us about traveling to away meetings or more recently traveled overseas as well? You tell us about traveling to watch. To watch. 00:24:52:11 - 00:25:26:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, quite as a kid, I used to go on the supporters coach quite often London ones on public transport because it was easy to get around. But, you know, if you just going to somewhere like Bellevue or somewhere out there or have even done the a couple of northern tours where you do 2 or 3 nights on the trot, you know, go to Newcastle, Glasgow and maybe somewhere else on the way back, Long Eaton or something, you know, and I never good trips. 00:25:26:11 - 00:25:42:04 Speaker 2 So yeah, the supporters clubs used to do good jobs in those so and Wimbledon were lucky. He'd had a guy that was a coach driver for Epsom coaches. So you always got a cheaper deal. 00:25:42:06 - 00:25:48:20 Speaker 1 And what was the role with other sports in the area? What was the role of speedway alongside the other sports in some places? 00:25:48:21 - 00:25:58:14 Speaker 2 Well, you had you had the speedway here and just at the top of our line, we had a big housing estate is now what's the football club. 00:25:58:16 - 00:26:09:17 Speaker 2 So in one road you had two, the two main sports of the area in this area and. 00:26:09:19 - 00:26:20:22 Speaker 2 I can't you know, I wouldn't know whether they sort of gelled together or not and got on with each other, I don't know, but they were both there. Football and speedway and greyhounds. 00:26:20:24 - 00:26:28:22 Speaker 1 Okay. So you were. 00:26:28:24 - 00:26:31:19 Speaker 1 So so you worked at the stadium for a while? 00:26:31:21 - 00:26:52:22 Speaker 2 Yeah, I when when I haven't come in 57, I spent a lot of time down here within 57 and 50 I he went home at the end of 58. But I got to know a lot of the staff at the stadium. And I used to come down on Saturdays and school holidays, and they used to pay me a few bob, like do a little odd jobs there and there. 00:26:52:24 - 00:27:13:12 Speaker 2 And just before I left school, the manager, sir, he came to me and said, when do you actually leave school and when, when can you start? And I've got to be honest, I didn't thought about it. And so I had a job here for the Easter 1960, and I worked here for. 00:27:13:14 - 00:27:26:16 Speaker 2 Nearly six years, but within less than a year I was the grandson for the dog changed daughter turf in. And also he served Mac on Tuesdays with the speedway track. 00:27:26:18 - 00:27:35:09 Speaker 1 Okay. And I mean, how much was that about job involved in? It was predominantly for the Greyhounds. Was it? 00:27:35:11 - 00:27:53:22 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. My job when I started working here was was basically looking after the greyhound track. I used to do all the turf in on it, you know, because it was run on grass. And then those, the center green used to look what that looks like out there now and. 00:27:53:24 - 00:28:17:12 Speaker 2 But in the wintertime if you couldn't get on the, you know, the ground track so much, I mean, we all remember. No perhaps we don't. The winter of 1963 when for three months we just had continuous snow. We never lost a greyhound meeting at Wimbledon and we used to cover it up. It was covered up all the time. 00:28:17:13 - 00:28:47:19 Speaker 2 We was running one meet in a week on a Wednesday night, and we clear the sheets off Wednesday afternoon. All the snow off sent. The green was about 4 or 5ft deep. You couldn't walk across center green, but nevertheless the ground meeting in 63 and that bad winter. And I always say that was an achievement. But I you know, the guys I worked with brilliant. 00:28:47:21 - 00:29:09:13 Speaker 2 Right through the ages, you know, there was different age groups and each and every one of them were a pleasure to be around, you know, and and as I was a kid, they didn't treat me like a kid. And, you know, they treated me as one of them. And it was great. Absolutely great. So. 00:29:09:15 - 00:29:16:22 Speaker 1 So they have different, different grounds that were the Speedway ground staff different from the Greyhound? 00:29:16:24 - 00:29:46:05 Speaker 2 The guy had done the speedway track, Mack, he worked for Ronnie Green, and Ronnie Green rented the stadium on a Monday for speedway. But he paid Mack to look after the speedway track. And Mack was here full time. And as I say Tuesday morning, so used to drive the tractor for him because Ted Bryan, the team manager who was supposed to do it, would be over the workshops doing, you know, riders bikes and. 00:29:46:07 - 00:30:10:10 Speaker 2 So I would just spend an hour or so with Mack just going to round and round. Wally graded it and got all the shell back and, and then he'd had the rest of the week to he just plodded on it and he sort of worked around us on the ground track because we took priority. But and I used to get him to cut the grass for me now and again. 00:30:10:10 - 00:30:17:09 Speaker 2 If I was busy, I asked him to do the grass and get the lines. 00:30:17:11 - 00:30:29:24 Speaker 1 I'd like to talk about how how Wimbledon Speedway changed over time. Could you explain about the years you were coming here, how you changed? 00:30:30:01 - 00:30:32:02 Speaker 2 From the point of view of. 00:30:32:04 - 00:30:34:17 Speaker 1 Of a fan of or? 00:30:34:19 - 00:30:50:17 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it got to the stage of about probably mid to late 70s. Things started changing amongst like riders retiring and getting a new breeding and. 00:30:50:19 - 00:31:22:13 Speaker 2 It they were different. The commodity wasn't there that you had crowds dwindled because the the team wasn't. And this was in general the crowds were dwindling in general and and it became a real second class sport, which was a shame because even today, I mean, these guys still put their neck on the line every time they put a leg over a bike. 00:31:22:15 - 00:31:28:20 Speaker 2 And it's still one of the most dangerous sports going, I think. 00:31:28:22 - 00:31:58:04 Speaker 2 But, you know, they're trying to make it safer. But I just think that during the late late 70s, it lost its way. And it was you started losing promoters, what I called real promoters. It could put a show on. And the people coming in were supporters that had a bit of money, maybe put into the club, but didn't have the know how to keep it going along. 00:31:58:04 - 00:32:30:11 Speaker 2 And there wasn't, there wasn't getting the attractions. So people just saw other things, you know, and said, I think today, you know, when I turn up, when, when a club says, oh, we got 2000 people in tonight, you know, and you think 2000 people and these guys, you've got 16 guys gone out there tonight, put their neck on the line to entertain 2000 people back in the day. 00:32:30:12 - 00:33:09:20 Speaker 2 You know, in the air you get 15 20,000 people just for a league match. The big meeting of the year for from the early 60s to the probably late 70s was The Internationale on a bank holiday, May Bank holiday evening on a Monday, and that packed the stadium. It was better than any world final you would see anywhere, because they were picked riders and you knew that no matter what, whoever one and there was always a brand new road tracks, Jap bike was the prize. 00:33:09:22 - 00:33:39:23 Speaker 2 Well, back in the day, you know, to win a bike. But no, they were good meetings. But even when Ronnie Green, when running green, basically called it a day here, I felt this was the downfall of women. It you had people come in and I'm not saying they were bad people, but they just didn't have that bit that Ronnie Green had a new Charlie Trees and people like that. 00:33:39:23 - 00:33:56:19 Speaker 2 Johnny Austins and all those guys. The promoter today to me is not doesn't exist. The last one was Lynn Silver and we lost him recently. To me he was the last promoter zero. But he could promote. 00:33:56:21 - 00:34:33:05 Speaker 2 So I don't I don't see a promoter in speedway today. You can you can go around a local area. You won't see a placard up or anything to advertise that they're speedway owner. Whereas it was in in those Monday nights and he used to be in them, those because the promoters used to get used to go out and do them, put them up on trees and shop windows in the local areas and advertised on that poster that something was going to be going in extra, but promoted the guys running the clubs. 00:34:33:05 - 00:34:59:01 Speaker 2 I don't call them promotes, I just call them people running the clubs today, you know, and they most of them are short lived. The longest ones I think now is Matt fall down at Paul and he's been there about 20 years. But, you know, he's a multi-millionaire and he just keeps playing plowing money into it. But promoters shame not it, exist. 00:34:59:03 - 00:35:02:01 Speaker 1 You mentioned safety. How did that change over the years? 00:35:02:02 - 00:35:06:09 Speaker 3 Have you been watching Speedway? 00:35:06:11 - 00:35:46:21 Speaker 2 So a lot of safety in my eye. I always felt and I saw most of the tracks in the UK. Wimbledon had the safest fence. It was. It was a war mesh wait a ton. And it was taken up and put down every Monday and you had a kick board went round the bottom so you footrest didn't get jammed into the fence, but the Wimbledon fence, nine times out of ten you'd run into it and it was like a big cushion and it was sort of slower and bring it back nice and gentle. 00:35:46:22 - 00:36:17:03 Speaker 2 I'm not saying riders didn't get injured because they did, but they bought in their fences a few years ago. Now, I wouldn't say Air Fence is a good or are better because behind them, if the majority of people knew what was behind that air fence, the earth frightened the daylights out here. You know, we're talking a solid fences and poles and things like that. 00:36:17:04 - 00:36:40:02 Speaker 2 You know, the air fence, although it's going to cushion you, they still break, they still burst or you can go underneath them. And I'm a typical at the time Paul last year so I wasn't he went underneath and he broke I don't know he's just got back on a bike after a year and he was on life support for over a week. 00:36:40:03 - 00:37:03:22 Speaker 2 But you can go under the air fence or your foot rest can catch the air fence. And if you're you're doing 80 mile an hour down the street and your foot rest catches the bottom of the foot, foot, foot, the air fence, it's just going to turn you in. Whereas if you had the kickball down, the old wire fences used to run off. 00:37:03:24 - 00:37:20:23 Speaker 2 And they say a lot of riders used to have a lot of fear of going to Exeter. Exeter was a solid steel safety fence all the way around it, and but if you rode it, there was. 00:37:21:00 - 00:37:42:10 Speaker 2 You could, you could turn, you could get your back on, on the fence, just barely touch it and get ten yards out of it. Or if you run into it, you'd run along it. You had to be really unlucky to get badly hurt. And unfortunately, my son was one of those that was unlucky and he got badly hurt. 00:37:42:11 - 00:37:57:02 Speaker 2 But exit, I always felt, was one of the safest fences, although it was solid still. And also Halifax had a concrete and concrete wall and when you look at it. 00:37:57:04 - 00:38:17:08 Speaker 2 But I was safe. But I think the wire, the wire fences were the safest fence. I'm not a great lover of the air fence. I don't think it's I don't think it's there what they say it does that. Hey, that's that's the sport. That's how it's changed. 00:38:17:10 - 00:38:22:20 Speaker 1 And how did it feel to go to Wimbledon for the last time to watch Speedway? 00:38:22:22 - 00:38:35:17 Speaker 2 I've got to be honest, the last time I came down to Wimbledon was they were just going into the amateur league and. 00:38:35:19 - 00:38:41:03 Speaker 2 They had all these youngsters and older guys. 00:38:41:05 - 00:38:49:21 Speaker 2 And I'm with John. John was, I don't know whether John was in that group. 00:38:49:23 - 00:39:17:02 Speaker 2 But anyway, they had this opening meeting. They paid a lot of money to bring Ronnie. Moreover, it was a wet night. They wanted Ronnie to go and do a few laps on the track and one he said no, and I stood with Richard Clarke. Where we all was back in the day, stood in the pits and after I think about 4 or 5, 4 or 5 races, Richard said to me, shall we? 00:39:17:04 - 00:39:35:16 Speaker 2 And we ended up over the corner pin. And the only way in and out was through the grandstand. At that meeting we walked through and we saw a couple of the security guys that had been there for donkey's years, like, you know, and they said, what's that? Let's. 00:39:35:18 - 00:40:00:13 Speaker 2 Richard just said, not for me. And that was the last time, and I think I saw 3 or 4 races that night or processions around. I felt sorry for the guys, you know, the riders, because no matter what, they're still putting that time and effort in and still putting a leg over a bike. And, you know, unless you've had the experience of being on a speedway bike and give it a few revs. 00:40:00:15 - 00:40:17:13 Speaker 2 It's it's quite daunting. But yeah, so that was the last. And they did then try and run a few meetings and whatever. But it was never a success again. You knew it was going to go you know it was it. They had run. 00:40:17:15 - 00:40:25:02 Speaker 1 Okay. And looking back, what did Wimbledon Speedway mean to you? 00:40:25:04 - 00:40:49:21 Speaker 2 Well, for a while it became part of my life, especially when I was single or even when I got married. I was still, you know, I still went to the speedway, but. And then when my two boys come along, you know, he said, bring them down here and take them to the odd away meetings. And, and the oldest son who I was, I wouldn't say to him, I want you to do this. 00:40:49:23 - 00:41:23:01 Speaker 2 You know, they have to make their own mind up. But it was my eldest son that I thought would have done it, but it ended up being the younger son that he joined the supporters club here and followed him everywhere and, and, and really got into it and, and he eventually raced and he had, you know, he enjoyed it and he had a few smacks and, you know, checking out the local hospitals in various places. 00:41:23:01 - 00:41:28:18 Speaker 2 But if you're just one of them unlucky once, it's. 00:41:28:20 - 00:41:36:04 Speaker 2 But you enjoyed it. And that was the most important thing. I enjoyed it. And when he's finished riding. 00:41:36:06 - 00:42:01:02 Speaker 2 I missed that weekly journey down to Exeter where he was. We we was contracted and I used to make the journey down because it was quite, you know, the exit of supporters, second to none. And, and the promoter at the time down there was brilliant. And they could run a speedway meeting and I used to say the colony, you know, why don't you buy Wimbledon? 00:42:01:04 - 00:42:23:15 Speaker 2 I wanted to get a few Bobby and get up there. Do what you're doing up there. What are you doing there? I need you and. Yeah, he. But it's. You know, I just think speedway in the UK has lost its way. I mean, come on. Them and many stadiums. There's. How many tracks said we got going? I don't know doesn't. 00:42:23:17 - 00:42:24:10 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:42:24:12 - 00:42:51:23 Speaker 2 He served nearly that in London but yeah it's you know it's UK. I say number 5 or 6 years. I don't think it'd be a club in UK because it's too easy to get get abroad now on it. And most of these guys that race in Poland these days, they live there and just fly back in and do a meeting or two meetings a week in UK like tonight, they're probably all in Sweden tonight. 00:42:52:03 - 00:43:20:17 Speaker 2 Raced at UK last night, all in Sweden tonight. Denmark probably Wednesday, UK Thursday Poland Friday. And I was so easy, so easy to get to. Whereas like when I used to travel around with Ivan, you drove, you know, if you was going to Germany or somewhere or check how you drove. Whereas now two hours on the plane. 00:43:20:19 - 00:43:26:11 Speaker 1 Okay, that's all my questions. Is there anything else you'd like to tell us that we haven't covered? 00:43:26:13 - 00:43:54:23 Speaker 2 Well, as I say, I met my wife here in 1962, and she was still at school. And for extra money, she used to walk the grounds around of a race night. Her and her friend got a job there, and one of the stadium staff, I don't know how he'd done it to this day and how he worked it, but he got us to sit up and that's it. 00:43:54:23 - 00:44:11:08 Speaker 2 And and ended up getting married in 1964. And I had no I had my side. I have a my mum and dad, my two sisters. My guess were for me. 00:44:11:10 - 00:44:18:11 Speaker 2 And Anthony James, who was the general manager here. 00:44:18:13 - 00:44:55:20 Speaker 2 He came to the church, but most of the staff were there. And what this they'd done for us, I mean, they, they virtually done half of a flat for us in furniture and, and, and washing machines and stuff like that fridge. Unbelievable. And I, you know, and I thought, where would you get that today. But now. So yeah, this place has given me a married life of 62 years and touchwood, it's been and it's been a good life. 00:44:55:22 - 00:45:00:23 Speaker 2 But yeah, but I look at this now and I just think. 00:45:01:00 - 00:45:33:14 Speaker 2 Doesn't, doesn't do a thing for me now this when I, when I left here I went to John Kearns owned the place. And I think you said you had Roger his son, Roger Kearns. Yeah. And. Well, I remember him as a as a little kid coming in school on any times. And his dad would bring him and, and they had dealings with West Ham Football Club and it. 00:45:33:16 - 00:46:10:08 Speaker 2 But no great. You know, absolute great. I love this place. And I look at this and I just think doesn't do a thing, not a thing. But when I left, what I was going to say was in 1968 they had the floods and if the whole area was all flooded, and John Kearns and Conn Stevens, who was the greyhound racing manager, spoke to my dad, who was working here and said, listen, the whole dog track needs returning. 00:46:10:10 - 00:46:52:20 Speaker 2 What's the chances of getting Jim down here? And the old man spoke to me, you know, and basically they said, name your price. And I came down here in two weeks. I completely turfed the dog track. All the other staff were digging it all out, all the old stuff out, and there was continuous lorries coming up from Sheerness with turf, and they were thick, 18 by 12in, and I laid the whole dog track in two weeks, and I went to John Kearns at the end and said, look, if you can pay me what BT are paying me on a flat week, I'd love to come back here. 00:46:52:22 - 00:47:15:02 Speaker 2 And he said, we can't go to it. And he offered me not even half. And I said, no, I can't do it. And then I saw on Stevens, the ground manager, and I said, I want to come back, but John won't pay me the money. It's all a word. See if I can do anything. But they couldn't do anything. 00:47:15:04 - 00:47:31:24 Speaker 2 So. But I was saved with post office telephones. I was in and out of here more than I was on post, I was telephones, I spend all my time there, there. But yeah, and I look at this now and I just think. 00:47:32:01 - 00:47:41:16 Speaker 2 And do a thing, you know, I mean I'm watching these guys down here training. 00:47:41:18 - 00:47:58:21 Speaker 2 And I'm thinking back in the day, they wouldn't if you walked across the center green and Wimbledon Stadium after it had been been done and all, you know, lined and everything, you'd find someone shouting from the grandstand, get off the glass. 00:47:58:23 - 00:48:08:23 Speaker 2 But nice. It was a great place to work. And I had some good years there. And, you know, it was part of my life. 00:48:09:00 - 00:48:12:01 Speaker 1 Okay. Anybody else have any questions? Supplementary. 00:48:12:03 - 00:48:18:04 Speaker 4 So we're going to ask questions. But if you could answer towards David. Yes. For those if he's asked. Yeah. 00:48:18:06 - 00:48:21:15 Speaker 1 Yeah. So hearing about when you got married and everything. 00:48:21:15 - 00:48:28:23 Speaker 4 It sounds like there was a good strong sense of community, almost like a family here. You could talk about that a little bit. 00:48:29:00 - 00:48:36:20 Speaker 2 It was a family. Even the ladies that used to come in after that, they, they after meetings. 00:48:36:22 - 00:48:41:01 Speaker 2 To clear the stands. 00:48:41:03 - 00:48:50:21 Speaker 2 They all it was all one. You all knew each other and and it was great, you know. 00:48:50:23 - 00:49:16:13 Speaker 2 But yeah, it was it was a good, a good community. And they were all local people and, and I made some friends out of it, you know, that most of them have passed away now, but there's still two, three that I'm intact with all those from all those years ago that I picked the phone up and have a chat and but yeah, so it was a great community. 00:49:16:14 - 00:49:22:20 Speaker 2 It was right away for. So. Yeah. 00:49:22:22 - 00:49:29:10 Speaker 4 Yeah. I just also you got your dad into work here. So how did that happen and what did he do? 00:49:29:12 - 00:49:58:23 Speaker 2 Well, my dad was a a baker bakers Rounds man over in Auckland in Kent. And he used to go out for every morning and not get home to seven, 8:00 at night. And I could see that this was affecting his health. And they had a job going here, looking after the governor's cars and driving a van, being a general runabout and whatever. 00:49:59:00 - 00:50:18:07 Speaker 2 And I thought that I'd suit my old man. And I spoke to the old man about it, and I spoke to the the manager here. He said, bring him down on the dog night and I'll have a word with him. And before we'd gone on that night, the manager, Cyril, come to me and said, you're going to have to buck your ideas up because that's going to be working here, and you've got the job there. 00:50:18:07 - 00:50:35:18 Speaker 2 And then that night, so you know it done in my favor, because he wasn't out at the crack of dawn every day and it was only up the road. So. Yeah. Great. 00:50:35:20 - 00:50:46:12 Speaker 1 Another one. I think we need to capture the full the actual years that you were involved in speedway here. I don't think we've got the beginning and the end. So like the first time and. 00:50:46:12 - 00:51:00:03 Speaker 2 The last. Well, the first meeting I saw was 52, and I saw a few more through that seasoning periodically for the next couple of years until I saw it, then just became a regular and. 00:51:00:05 - 00:51:22:21 Speaker 2 And then went all the way through, even in my married days, you know, Monday night was still speedway night. First is when it went to Thursday. I wasn't so keen. Don't know why I'm still the same, but I wasn't. I didn't attend so much and it was nothing to do with finances in those because I could think used to let me in. 00:51:22:22 - 00:51:46:19 Speaker 2 I had to come round to the pit gate or the complimentary turnstile, and because they all knew me, you know, I freedom to come in. So but I know I used to come down there and and go more to meet up with some of my old cycle speedway buddies because they were still attending, you know, from Raines Park and south London and Beckenham and places. 00:51:46:19 - 00:52:07:22 Speaker 2 And so come down now and again just over catch up with those guys. And. Yeah. So I suppose you could say I've done it, you know, supported them if you like, to a point up until the day they actually physically closed and. 00:52:07:24 - 00:52:25:12 Speaker 2 Finished. But I did not come down to the last, last time they had a, I think it was a Greyhound in add on or stock car meeting they must have had on, I think probably a stock car meeting and had a few of the lads. 00:52:25:14 - 00:52:29:17 Speaker 2 Get their bikes and just. 00:52:29:19 - 00:52:51:00 Speaker 2 Ride around the track. No, no skidding on anything. Just, just ride around the track with their Cavaliers and their just to sort of say this is the end of Wimbledon Speedway. But I didn't come down there that night. I did ring Richard Clarke and I said, are you going? And he said no elsewhere. If he'd come, I would have probably come down. 00:52:51:00 - 00:53:06:06 Speaker 2 But the interest had gone. I'm afraid it just, it just because it was so hit and miss of what you were going to get. But. 00:53:06:08 - 00:53:23:01 Speaker 2 Had some great times here and saw some great speed by some real great speedway. And I saw saw all the greats of the day, you know, you fundings and cravens and and especially now Ronnie. 00:53:23:03 - 00:53:42:06 Speaker 2 We got on great. And when I got Ivan's brother Trevor and I in Christchurch when we was out there a few years ago and I said, can you contact Ronnie and see if I can put me out? And a couple of days with Ronnie in Christchurch and I'm a brilliant. 00:53:42:08 - 00:54:03:13 Speaker 2 Yeah. A lot of people used to say he was, but he was a great guy. And it's the same. A major, major would never talk to you before me because he was focused on what he was doing after the meeting. He'd be the last guy in the cold showers because he'd sign anybody. He said grass and talk to him. 00:54:03:13 - 00:54:26:22 Speaker 2 But before meeting, he had a job to do it. That's why he became the best. So. But there's a story with Richard Clarke and him, which, had Clarke, could not stand the sight of Ivan because he would come down here, beat the Wimbledon number ones and, and went all the laces and more or less Richard. Richard hated him. 00:54:26:24 - 00:54:31:16 Speaker 2 And when Ivan retired and. 00:54:31:18 - 00:54:52:14 Speaker 2 Every year, without fail, he he came over 6 to 8 weeks and say my place was the was the base and he was over one. And I said to him, fancied going down the Speedway star office because it's only down at Surbiton. And he said, yeah, yeah, we got down here. He said, perhaps, you know, little ads are there. 00:54:52:15 - 00:55:04:16 Speaker 2 I said, oh, you know, don't worry, you'll be fine. We walked in there and if you'd seen Richard Clarke's face when we walked in the door, I think he wants to talk to you. Clarke. 00:55:04:18 - 00:55:17:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. Great. There's a lot of that gone missing, Shane. And to think I used to referee this football. I can't even watch football now. 00:55:17:24 - 00:55:36:17 Speaker 1 Did you have any more? I you talked about the time that Ivan kind of got a bad referee decision, but you kind of are very diplomatic about it. I don't know if you're happy to say a bit more. About what? What they said he'd done, or it. 00:55:36:19 - 00:55:47:09 Speaker 2 Was a bit of a fracas on the first turn. And it was a it was a 100% all four back. 00:55:47:11 - 00:55:59:13 Speaker 2 And but the referee and this particular referee, it was a known fact. He did have a bit of a downer on him, but. 00:55:59:15 - 00:56:04:02 Speaker 2 He had a down on a lot of riders. But. 00:56:04:04 - 00:56:21:14 Speaker 2 Nobody could believe that he got he disqualified a rider. It wouldn't have mattered whether it was the Wimbledon ride or the the away ride. You know, it was a typical first Ben for riders come together. There was no malicious. 00:56:21:16 - 00:56:31:15 Speaker 2 Intent, intent on doing something. They just all come together at the wrong time and. 00:56:31:17 - 00:56:41:07 Speaker 2 But yeah, so I just lost it and I, I made my way round to the referee's box, but fortunately there was a couple of guys there. It. 00:56:41:09 - 00:56:53:10 Speaker 2 So yeah. But I'll never tell you busy after I told Ivan and I just mentioned it to him soon as I said the referee's name and he said yeah, yeah. 00:56:53:12 - 00:56:59:09 Speaker 2 But things happen only. 00:56:59:11 - 00:57:00:03 Speaker 2 Can I ask you. 00:57:00:03 - 00:57:18:22 Speaker 1 About Ronnie Green? Yeah. Referred to him. Just mentioned him 3 or 4 times. He seems to be sort of a key figure in the history of women. And could you tell us a little? Don't really know much about him. Could you just talk to David and tell us a little bit about him? You know, who he was, what he was like, and a bit more about, you know, how he was important to Wimbledon. 00:57:18:24 - 00:57:28:03 Speaker 2 Ronnie Green was a promoter through and through, and. 00:57:28:05 - 00:58:00:16 Speaker 2 He everything he'd done was for Wimbledon, Speedway and and he really, really did promote his riders, respected him. He staff respected him. But he was a great guy for speed by. And the day that he resigned, he's all retired was a very sad day for Wimbledon Speedway. They lost their heart as far as I'm concerned that day. And. 00:58:00:22 - 00:58:06:15 Speaker 1 And what was he so good. Tell us a little bit more about why he was so good at his job. 00:58:06:17 - 00:58:29:19 Speaker 2 The track star, for instance, would come out. They would march out of an evening before the match, the meeting, the track staff would march out, and if they didn't have a shine on their shoes when a greenish decided to polish that before you go out knowing full well they're going to come out onto that shell and they're going to get dusty anyway. 00:58:29:21 - 00:58:42:00 Speaker 2 But you go out there, look in the business, and everybody that was on that sent the green of a race night marched out, all looks back and span. 00:58:42:02 - 00:58:51:00 Speaker 2 Do what you got to do or look after you. And that was Ronnie Green and. 00:58:51:02 - 00:59:16:21 Speaker 2 And I thought he was a great guy. I thought he was. I mean, Ronnie Green was a keen also see fisherman and he bought a shark that he caught back here one Monday. And that shark was driven around, towed around the track on the back of the tractor that night. And then it was massive and it was left hanging in the pits overnight. 00:59:16:22 - 00:59:44:09 Speaker 2 And when you come in on a Tuesday morning, well, did it stink? But you know, one of the stadium staff cut that fish up and it was as white as white could be inside. And everybody was taking fish. And not one person said that was very sad. But he brought it back. And and at the end of the meeting, like guys were saying to me, taking it, no, no, no. 00:59:44:11 - 00:59:51:03 Speaker 2 Do it like that. It's there. And it was hanging in the pits and wanted to ride this hooks. 00:59:51:05 - 00:59:56:18 Speaker 1 What about Barry Brinkley talks about when I talk to you on the phone? You talked about? Yeah. Can you tell David about Barry Briggs a bit? 00:59:56:19 - 01:00:07:15 Speaker 2 Barry Briggs? Yeah, I met Barry Briggs through Auvergne a few years ago when I used to, you know, just have a few words before. 01:00:07:17 - 01:00:27:01 Speaker 2 I can remember Barry Briggs here in 1957. I was watching him in the car park. The stadium car park, doing practice starts on the morning of a world final. And that night he went to Wembley and won the world final. But he was doing practice starts on the tarmac, out in the car park, and he was a character. 01:00:27:03 - 01:00:38:23 Speaker 2 He's introduced him to Richard actually when done the running more thing last year and but yeah, and he's still around. He's still still travels still. 01:00:39:02 - 01:00:40:11 Speaker 1 His importance to Wimbledon. 01:00:40:12 - 01:00:58:14 Speaker 2 He was a brilliant rider. He was absolutely his bike was ill together by bits of wire and everything else. I mean, if he looked at his bike, you'd always wonder, how the hell did you ever become world champion? But you know, he could get on anything and race it and win on it. 01:00:58:16 - 01:01:22:10 Speaker 2 Brigade was a great team, man. He was, he was he was just a terrific slave. And you know, he was a guy that came over from New Zealand without any money in his pocket to make a living. And he did. And he was and he was good to watch. He had a great style. In actual fact, my oldest son was like mate surviving. 01:01:22:10 - 01:01:28:10 Speaker 2 I named my eldest son. His middle name was Barry. 01:01:28:12 - 01:01:37:07 Speaker 2 And I remember saying, the big old one. I said, you know, I named my eldest son after you. Anyway, that was an state. 01:01:37:09 - 01:02:04:18 Speaker 2 But yeah, I met him a few times, you know, different places. After he retired and all that. We had saw him a couple of times in Germany once. So, I mean, the 1982 world final in Los Angeles Coliseum was chatting to him out there because he and the Niven and Brad Oxley, his dad, run the show. And so, you know, I saw, you know, I see him here and there. 01:02:04:20 - 01:02:13:19 Speaker 2 But he's getting on a bit now the old boy, but still still gets on a bike, you know, the trails bike or something. 01:02:13:21 - 01:02:16:10 Speaker 1 Else on. Any questions? 01:02:16:12 - 01:02:25:15 Speaker 5 Yes. I was wondering, was your wife interested in speedway and how did she feel about her son doing something quite a risky sport. 01:02:25:17 - 01:02:26:03 Speaker 1 So if you could. 01:02:26:08 - 01:02:27:01 Speaker 5 Have an accident. 01:02:27:02 - 01:02:32:15 Speaker 2 She wasn't interested in speedway. Not one bit. 01:02:32:17 - 01:03:06:03 Speaker 2 And she only saw my son raced a few times because she didn't like the idea of it. And he was doing a he was doing a training night down there run by Malcolm Simmonds, and she came down a little bit later in the evening. And as she walks up the slope at the pits and she thought I recognized the bike there, but it was very quiet out on track. 01:03:06:05 - 01:03:31:19 Speaker 2 And it was Steve under the fence and he was caught up in it. And so she arrived, got any ambulance and went to Saint George's Hospital with him. But she very, very rare. Did she put him raised very rare. She didn't like the idea. And when he had his bad, his bad crash at Exeter because it was only heat two and I rang about it must have been about 8:30. 01:03:31:23 - 01:04:01:20 Speaker 2 I rang her from the hospital and the first word she said was not hello or anything. It was as he hit his head because she worked for Morley Hospital, where they had done all the head injuries and all the rest of the nasties, and she'd already talking to me on the phone. She's working out, getting her air ambulance to bring him to Saint George's, to Atkinson Morley. 01:04:01:22 - 01:04:32:10 Speaker 2 But yeah, she she didn't like him racing, but she knew it because I was the old the ringer, you know, using the stadium phone. Said phone after every meeting just to say yeah he's okay. And but because I rang earlier that night she knew and then I came I when they got him settled in the hospital and I came home, I drove home from Exeter like a steam train. 01:04:32:12 - 01:04:56:02 Speaker 2 She had some clothes packed and we went straight back down to Exeter. We was offered accommodation everywhere, but I just said to someone, if you can find me some accommodation where we can just be alone. Anyway, someone found us a massive caravan on a farm and my in-laws came down and we had nearly two weeks because he was in intensive care down there. 01:04:56:02 - 01:05:21:12 Speaker 2 But no, she didn't like him racing. And I think the day that he we came home from Mexico and he called it halfway through that meeting, you knew it was like early days after he smashed and still had metal work all up his legs in it, and he called it. And I came home that night and, you know, got into bed. 01:05:21:13 - 01:05:51:17 Speaker 2 I said, that's it, we won't be going to Exeter. And then he's bailed out and you could hear the solar relief come out. And but she wanted the bikes gone and she wasn't, she wasn't under percent happy until got rid of the bikes. And because it was there. But now she didn't like him like it. She didn't like speedway. 01:05:51:18 - 01:06:15:20 Speaker 2 I mean, she had been to world finals with me to, to, you know, when, when I haven't been one of world championship, something like that, you know, and or his big one was a European thing at Wembley and European champion and after the meeting there and you know, and I even give her a hug and all that and, and she said, still no good, Ivan. 01:06:15:22 - 01:06:22:11 Speaker 2 It doesn't do a thing for me. 01:06:22:13 - 01:06:23:18 Speaker 6 Yeah. I was actually going to ask. 01:06:23:18 - 01:06:25:13 Speaker 1 You if you were at that world champion. 01:06:25:13 - 01:06:26:21 Speaker 6 So you were championship with. 01:06:26:21 - 01:06:47:09 Speaker 2 I went to a few. Yeah, I was, I was, I wasn't at all his world championship. Sorry. Wasn't it all these world championship meetings? I was at some and some of his early days, especially of winning, started winning the big things. And. Yeah. 01:06:47:11 - 01:06:56:09 Speaker 1 Have you got any questions you think related to when will the speedway you think we should ask him I keep quiet. No no no no I think okay. Kind of got one. 01:06:56:09 - 01:07:07:22 Speaker 6 More a bit about the bikes and the gear and like did you have a home workshop or how did all that work? Where were you? Where did this sort this stuff happen? 01:07:07:23 - 01:07:31:08 Speaker 2 My, my when I when we got his first bike, my garage was like emptied out and became the workshop and and that's where everything happened. And then gradually and I ended up with three bikes and everything was done in my I spent all my time in my garage at 14, my garage, you can walk from the house into the garage. 01:07:31:13 - 01:07:46:20 Speaker 2 And yeah, I only saw my wife when he was racing through the season because I'd ever been in the garage working on his bikes, or we'd be out racing. 01:07:46:22 - 01:08:03:15 Speaker 2 And then when he when I got rid of all the bikes, at the end of the day, I got an empty garage and I thought, what do I do? I missed it, you know, he missed it, but. 01:08:03:17 - 01:08:09:08 Speaker 2 Yeah, great dice, great dice. 01:08:09:10 - 01:08:36:02 Speaker 1 How do we. Thank you. How are you feeling? I'm good. Are you happy? You feel like you've kind of covered your. You know, this is your history. So you to be happy, you know, your history related to to to win with the speedway. I'm just looking through notes from our conversation. I think you've covered everything, but is there anything else that you want to tell someone who's listening to this in a thousand years? 01:08:36:04 - 01:08:40:24 Speaker 1 Reporting to Jim about when we're done track? 01:08:41:01 - 01:08:48:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. No, you know, it's I mean, I could go on and talk about Ivan for forever, but, you know, that's. 01:08:48:13 - 01:09:01:03 Speaker 1 Yeah, I did, but you said he was your hero. Yeah, he talked about it. I know you had a personal relationship with him, but you talk about what it was about him that made him your hero. Why? 01:09:01:05 - 01:09:04:22 Speaker 2 The day I actually the first day I was still. 01:09:04:24 - 01:09:06:07 Speaker 1 There, still reporting it. 01:09:06:08 - 01:09:23:16 Speaker 2 The first day I got, I spoke to him. I was outside my house or my parent's house, and his wife had gone in with my eldest sister and and I just said to him. Oh, your wife's in my house. 01:09:23:18 - 01:09:51:00 Speaker 2 All right. So he's gone in. And as I say, him and my dad just did it off like it was a long lost son. Come home like, you know, and and that's how I ended up with him. But from that day on, Ivan and I became inseparable. Although his wife, she didn't go home to the beginning of the 1958, she went back to New Zealand while he tried another season and. 01:09:51:02 - 01:09:54:10 Speaker 2 But. 01:09:54:11 - 01:10:09:15 Speaker 2 Him and I just I followed. I used to call for school if he had a meeting in the week. I used to bunk off at school and if I wasn't home by 4:30, my old man knew that I'd gone racing with Ivan. 01:10:09:17 - 01:10:35:13 Speaker 2 But you know, when I used to hear, when I used to hear fans slating him, you know, and I used to think, you know, if only you knew the guy. If only you knew the guy that I know and others in the speedway know after racing. And that's what a lot of people. 01:10:35:15 - 01:10:39:24 Speaker 2 Didn't, didn't know about him. 01:10:40:01 - 01:10:58:13 Speaker 2 I, I was asked to go. He got the man of the millennium and it was all done at Bewley and all recorded and everything. And he Ivan said to me, do you want to be interviewed? 01:10:58:15 - 01:11:06:20 Speaker 2 And I said, yeah, I he said, but we talk about what you're going to be asked. 01:11:06:22 - 01:11:15:23 Speaker 2 So I said, oh. And it was, I don't know whether you knew Peter Lipscombe and John Chaplin. No. 01:11:16:00 - 01:11:51:04 Speaker 2 Both great scribes in the magazines and whatever. And anyway, they organized it all and all that and looked. Bewley was there, but it was a good attendance. And when we I was interviewed in the first half, when we broke half time, Tony Millard, the sports commentator, he interviewed me. But when Tony Millard finished, a lady came up to me and as she was come walking towards me and I thought, I know you. 01:11:51:06 - 01:12:09:22 Speaker 2 And it was Ronnie Greene's wife. And she came up and she said, do you know you was the bane of my husband's life? You was the only one as a kid that never called him Sir or Mr. Green. 01:12:09:24 - 01:12:32:03 Speaker 2 And I said, but he was a great man. He so. Yeah. Mrs. Green, I could not believe that. And my wife Marilyn said to me, I recognized that lady you just speaking to. And I said, Ronnie Greene's wife. And she'd gone because the. 01:12:32:05 - 01:12:39:02 Speaker 2 Little bit of history had been Wimbledon, and she she was invited. 01:12:39:04 - 01:12:47:10 Speaker 2 Like to be there for Ronnie, for Ronnie Greene. But. 01:12:47:11 - 01:12:51:20 Speaker 2 But we had some we had some good times. We had some good times. 01:12:51:21 - 01:12:55:16 Speaker 6 I got one more if I don't have time. It's just about this thing. 01:12:55:16 - 01:12:58:04 Speaker 2 About this one. I've got all the time in the world. 01:12:58:06 - 01:12:59:07 Speaker 1 That has to be one more day. 01:12:59:08 - 01:13:05:00 Speaker 6 It's the sense of green bit. How do people get permission to be on that? Because that's not a normal. Can you tell them? 01:13:05:02 - 01:13:35:13 Speaker 2 I think what they used to do was like they had a raffle, a draw or something, and if your name was picked out, your number picked out half time in full time, you've taken out in the center green and you could watch the second half from the center green. And and that was great because it gave the fan a totally different outlook on what they're watching, because it's totally different from the center green. 01:13:35:15 - 01:14:12:22 Speaker 2 Totally, totally different. And yeah, they were good. But because of health and safety now very, very rare. Does it happen or if it does happen, they shielded by staff around them. But it was a regular thing, especially down here. Every Monday night, maybe a dozen people would go out and I sent the green and watch few races. And also they used to get a lot of riders out in the center green at half time as well, doing whatever raffle draws and things like that so they could get to talk to them. 01:14:13:03 - 01:14:18:18 Speaker 2 They're they're favorites on a senior green. So it was 2 in 1. It was great.