00:00:00:02 - 00:00:11:10 Speaker 1 This is Ingrid Holtz conducting an interview for the Speedway at Wimbledon Stadium Oral History Project on 21st April 2026. So can we start with some basic questions? What is your name? 00:00:11:12 - 00:00:15:18 Speaker 2 If Chris Pullen or Chris Mad Dog Pullen. 00:00:15:20 - 00:00:17:05 Speaker 1 Where were you born? 00:00:17:08 - 00:00:25:18 Speaker 2 I was born, Merton in Saint Teresa, but I lived and I was born lived in elsewhere. I was. 00:00:25:20 - 00:00:26:24 Speaker 1 So very local. 00:00:27:02 - 00:00:27:13 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:00:27:14 - 00:00:28:23 Speaker 1 What year were you born? 00:00:29:02 - 00:00:31:10 Speaker 2 1960. 00:00:31:12 - 00:00:33:18 Speaker 1 What did your parents do for a living? 00:00:33:19 - 00:00:38:12 Speaker 2 My dad was Ruth when my mum was a housewife. 00:00:38:14 - 00:00:45:01 Speaker 1 So we're going to ask some questions about how you started as a writer. Tell us which years you were a writer. 00:00:45:03 - 00:00:52:22 Speaker 2 I wrote in for Wimbledon in 87 and 88. That's when I wrote My dear. 00:00:52:24 - 00:00:54:13 Speaker 1 Okay. And you're still writing. 00:00:54:14 - 00:00:56:01 Speaker 2 And I'm still writing now? 00:00:56:07 - 00:01:00:03 Speaker 1 Yeah. And when did you start writing? As a senior? 00:01:00:05 - 00:01:09:04 Speaker 2 After they knocked the stadium. Then when I got back on the bike in about 2005, I think I've been a little bit later than that. 00:01:09:05 - 00:01:11:13 Speaker 1 So you've been doing that from 2005 to now? 00:01:11:14 - 00:01:12:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah. 00:01:13:01 - 00:01:14:17 Speaker 1 That's longer than you were. 00:01:14:19 - 00:01:17:10 Speaker 2 Well. 00:01:17:12 - 00:01:26:00 Speaker 2 Wimbledon, I rode two years, but I was writing from 1983 to 1988 and I finished. 00:01:26:02 - 00:01:29:15 Speaker 1 So how did you first get into speedway? 00:01:29:17 - 00:01:54:10 Speaker 2 I mean, that took me in 1973 to me and took us to to here. And we watched the meeting and I just fell in love with it. And I started go in. And being a supporter, my favorite rider was Tommy Anson, who was tragically killed. And, and you know, it's like going, I've just been I've been a sport really. 00:01:54:12 - 00:02:02:08 Speaker 2 And I mean, the proudest moment was getting into the team and flying in and in a way that it. 00:02:02:10 - 00:02:05:15 Speaker 3 That sounds really loud when you do the tapping. Just so thank you. 00:02:05:16 - 00:02:07:24 Speaker 2 I won't do it again. 00:02:08:00 - 00:02:11:18 Speaker 1 So you can say it like how did you. 00:02:11:20 - 00:02:16:24 Speaker 1 How did you end up in in Wimbledon in the Wimbledon team? 00:02:17:00 - 00:02:25:09 Speaker 2 I came here and had a they and trials and they, they signed us up. 00:02:25:11 - 00:02:31:03 Speaker 1 So did you have to try a few times or did you get in the first time. 00:02:31:05 - 00:03:06:06 Speaker 2 No. First time really in seven, but I did. I was riding in other things before that. But when I signed for Wimbledon was in 87. Yeah. And then in 88, I was lucky enough to get sponsored by Jimmy White listening to play. So that helped. He got me there and engine and stuff brought me the south of the bike, even though he wasn't interested way he was his mates, me coming from two in and he came and watched us and and sponsored me. 00:03:06:07 - 00:03:19:00 Speaker 2 All he said was promised me you won't kill yourself. But I said, you can't. You can't promise that. You know you got if you're wasting your racing. 00:03:19:02 - 00:03:21:19 Speaker 4 Oh, oh. 00:03:21:21 - 00:03:27:00 Speaker 1 So did you do I understand you did cycle speedway before you did? 00:03:27:04 - 00:03:51:20 Speaker 2 Yeah. In 1974. Started doing cycle speedway at South London Rangers, which is just down the road, Garrett Park. My dad done before me for two in tigers and they actually used to ride. He rode in the in the car park here. Dave Van spoke with Speedway and then they moved down to where we raised to go. 00:03:51:22 - 00:03:53:07 Speaker 1 What is cycle speedway? 00:03:53:08 - 00:04:12:15 Speaker 2 How's it? It's basically the same as speed. The rules are the same as the speedway on motorbikes, but you're just on the on pushbacks, so you've got no brakes. And so it's basically everything the same. But just on pushbacks. 00:04:12:17 - 00:04:16:22 Speaker 1 And Speedway have started doing that. 00:04:16:23 - 00:04:32:02 Speaker 2 Yeah. Once I got on the bike on, my ex-boyfriend said you were going to be good or you're going to break every bone in your body because you're just mad. So. 00:04:32:04 - 00:04:38:18 Speaker 1 And so how did you get the spill? Sorry. How did you get the skills to become a rider? 00:04:38:20 - 00:05:01:09 Speaker 2 Just practicing. Just going to I wade and training tracks and just just learning. And I mean, these days when you go out, don't you? Out one at a time. But in them days, you just turned up and four of you went out and you just had to learn quick and get you. So basically just learning as you go. 00:05:01:11 - 00:05:04:08 Speaker 1 Was this while you were still at school or was it. 00:05:04:10 - 00:05:18:21 Speaker 2 No, I was, I was, I finished school then. I was because I didn't have no backing from my bedroom and that. So I had to work. So. 00:05:18:23 - 00:05:23:04 Speaker 1 So how often? I mean, do you practice every day or a few times? 00:05:23:10 - 00:05:52:01 Speaker 2 No, it was mostly at weekends. Yeah. Down in Kent, I waved and go to any of the training schools, really. Even Wimbledon. There were training school at one time on a Wednesday night, so we'd come in and I had. But yeah, it was just basically practicing. Hackney used to go to their practicing practicing and then hopefully you get good enough to get get picked. 00:05:52:05 - 00:05:54:05 Speaker 1 Was that expensive? 00:05:54:07 - 00:06:13:05 Speaker 2 Yeah. Any motorsports you spend, it's always even when you're racing the money, you're going go straight back into the black. You know, it was for the love of it. I didn't race for the money. It was the. It was the love of racing. Really. 00:06:13:07 - 00:06:21:05 Speaker 1 I understood we understand that the riders also need to know how to repair their bikes and the mechanics as well. 00:06:21:07 - 00:06:35:22 Speaker 2 I'm not very good at the engine part. I can put them on the bike together and and, you know, set up the class and cut up the gearing for the tracks. But engine wise, I'm not great at that, but I can do all the other stuff. 00:06:35:23 - 00:06:37:18 Speaker 1 So someone else doing that. 00:06:37:19 - 00:06:40:19 Speaker 2 Yeah. You get. 00:06:40:21 - 00:06:58:10 Speaker 2 Someone doing your engines, but all the rest of the stuff you, you learn to do yourself and it's always better to do it yourself because then you know it's done up. You know, things have been put put together properly if you do it yourself, if it if it ain't, it's your mistake because your life is on the line. 00:06:58:10 - 00:07:05:12 Speaker 2 So you you've got to make sure that everything is right. So. 00:07:05:14 - 00:07:10:13 Speaker 1 Can you describe your first big race at Wimbledon? 00:07:10:15 - 00:07:45:20 Speaker 2 The first big way was my first time coming out in the second half. So it was really, really great. I always talked to the fans anyway. They would have been loonies. I always went in the crowd before the meeting and chatted to them with my son, and then I got out and when I was coming out, there'd be like this out, Mad Dog, Mad Dog, Show us and nuts and things like that. 00:07:45:22 - 00:08:10:18 Speaker 2 But I do play to the crowd, you know, and make sure that they had a good time because they're paying their money. They, you know. So, but coming out of the pits, up the tunnel bit and now on to the track, that was, for me, a great moment because it's, you know, to be coming out night in for Wimbledon. 00:08:10:20 - 00:08:29:11 Speaker 2 So. And I actually won the first time I went out, so that was good. So yeah, it was, that was probably one of my most memorable, times that that was that first time is really, really. 00:08:29:13 - 00:08:36:01 Speaker 2 Nice. And it, you know, gets you in your heart of. 00:08:36:03 - 00:08:39:17 Speaker 2 But, Yeah. 00:08:39:19 - 00:08:43:15 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about your speedway heroes? 00:08:43:16 - 00:09:11:14 Speaker 2 I spend my heroes with Tommy Jenson. Really? He was my hero. I mean, I liked having a riders. I liked Kenny Carter, who was an English rider. Moved him to go from Wimbledon. Like watching Todd Wiltshire. Me was good. But Arkin was one of my favorite riders, one of the older riders and, like Colin Mitchison. 00:09:11:16 - 00:09:26:01 Speaker 2 But Tommy Hanson was for me. I never saw Ronnie more like he was. He was everyone's legend, but I didn't really see him. So Tommy Anson was my hero. 00:09:26:03 - 00:09:31:11 Speaker 5 So. 00:09:31:13 - 00:09:37:04 Speaker 1 Why, what was so good about Tommy? 00:09:37:06 - 00:09:57:21 Speaker 2 He was stylish, fast. I mean, all the women, all the Wimbledon women fans loved him because he was good looking and, well, you know, and, all the, all the Wimbledon male fans loved because he was just so stylish on the bike. 00:09:57:23 - 00:10:00:18 Speaker 1 Stylish. 00:10:00:20 - 00:10:30:13 Speaker 2 He just said it was just so smooth. He was such a smooth rider. You know, he's just float down. It was it was very, very smooth and fast to you. I got a really good rider. It would have been we think he would have been well champion if he hadn't got killed. But yeah. And I did actually go over to Sweden a few years back, and it was like I was going to put some flowers on Tommy's grave. 00:10:30:13 - 00:10:59:12 Speaker 2 And I'm friends with his brother Bobo to Wimbledon and all the family now, so in Sweden. So. But yeah, he was my hero, really. And it's difficult to get a different one. But they were. I had favorite riders. I like watching like even now, like time offered and, and, and, there's some young kids coming up with a really good at the moment. 00:10:59:14 - 00:11:21:14 Speaker 2 So I'll watch them now. But, yeah, there was a lot of Wimbledon riders like John Davies, Dave Jessop, Manson, Simmons, chop chop riders of that day that we used to love watching go down. 00:11:21:16 - 00:11:29:10 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about your dreams and ambitions in those early days? 00:11:29:12 - 00:11:54:05 Speaker 2 Well, I wanted to running for Wimbledon was, was. But I mean, I probably wasn't good enough to be a world champion, but just do the best I could, you know? But I was just. I just wanted to be riding for Wimbledon anyway. I wouldn't wanted to ride for anybody else, really. Though, I did do a second half at Hackney, which is our arch rivals. 00:11:54:10 - 00:12:06:21 Speaker 2 So I had there was a picture of me in a Hackney race jacket, and when the Wimbledon fans didn't like it, they had to go up. What are you doing with that on, you know, so. 00:12:06:23 - 00:12:09:07 Speaker 1 What is the history of the rivalry? 00:12:09:09 - 00:12:42:03 Speaker 2 I think it's just because it's London, two London clubs. So, you know, it's just a rivalry there because we were the two London clubs, it probably had when there was more London clubs, it was probably more rivalry. But Hackney was a quite a rivalry. It's weird because on the Saturday I was practiced at Hackney and the Hackney team was all my mates to race when we raced, when I raised women and versus Hackney, we couldn't even talk to each other. 00:12:42:05 - 00:12:52:15 Speaker 2 It was like, you know, but we still friends. But it was a bit it was bad to not be that night. 00:12:52:17 - 00:12:54:21 Speaker 1 So you have to concentrate. 00:12:54:23 - 00:13:05:24 Speaker 2 Yeah. You want to win. You don't want to. So. But not not like anybody. Like dirty riding. But just be hard. Probably right harder that night. 00:13:06:01 - 00:13:16:01 Speaker 1 So we're just gonna ask some questions about your racing life, just generally. Can you give us an overview of your career? 00:13:16:03 - 00:13:58:22 Speaker 2 Well only done. Second one, a couple of individual meetings in in the novice stuff. Dear, I didn't really I mean, I'm riding now and I've won things, but it's and I've done blast from the past this year I was very last year. So I went all over England riding in the last when the past me, which is like veterans after the after the main meeting, you go out and they had a meeting and it was like, all on the older bikes and it's just a bit of fun really. 00:13:58:24 - 00:14:04:19 Speaker 1 Can you describe the equipment and gear you had back then? 00:14:04:21 - 00:14:41:06 Speaker 2 When you had labor's not like this. The bikes have got now basically the, the same the engines was up right then. Now they use the engine has laid down so it's slightly different. And the engines ever look harder now where they'd ever 8000. They now have 16,000. But so a bit more you got a really wide and flat out a little bit harder to ride they say. 00:14:41:08 - 00:14:42:14 Speaker 2 But 00:14:42:16 - 00:14:45:05 Speaker 1 So when you ride now, are you on an older style bike? 00:14:45:09 - 00:15:04:06 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's it's, I'm not riding as fast as I was a black man, but, Yeah, they're just a little bit more calmer to ride the the other ones. You hit a bit of grip and they just take off. So. 00:15:04:08 - 00:15:08:09 Speaker 1 And did you have any safety equipment? 00:15:08:11 - 00:15:23:10 Speaker 2 I mean, it's basically the same as what you got now. Yeah. Well and then they go back. So labor's boots steel shoe which you wear. 00:15:23:12 - 00:15:59:17 Speaker 2 Gloves and goggles and it's mostly the same now. But then, now you've got then you wear a body armor underneath. And of course in them days there was no air fences. Now they've got air fences. So it's a little bit more safer if you hit the air fences, which I think in some ways it's, it's, safer. But the other I think personally when you had the no air offenses, they didn't lie to each other so much into the fence these days, they seem to give nobody nothing, you know, no room. 00:15:59:17 - 00:16:36:18 Speaker 2 They take them to the fence, which is not very. It's dangerous, but it's this. So they right now. So it's a bit different our now we didn't let people to the so hard into the woods the fence which they seem to do now but it's still basically the same but it's just probably faster now, so. And the, the bikes are probably more, more expensive with the, you know, as everything goes up. 00:16:36:20 - 00:16:41:12 Speaker 1 But it was an expensive sport when you were. 00:16:41:14 - 00:17:02:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. Well your wages is it took all my money. So the wife was never happy. So then she said, it's over me and the kids or the speedway. So I chose them. And then. But we still split out. So much were carried on by Centro. 00:17:02:24 - 00:17:29:05 Speaker 2 There was a funny time. I lived in El, became through far from here. And my van went, oh, I walk it down. So I started walking the bike and all the gear. Anyway, furniture removal van pulled up. He said, you going to the stadium? I said, yeah, so put it on in the stadium. I pulled up out here and then we got the bike out and all the fans would carry everything in. 00:17:29:06 - 00:17:35:19 Speaker 2 So they were walking it in with me. So yeah. 00:17:35:20 - 00:17:48:03 Speaker 2 But we had really good fans. I think he had been loonies was second to none. And you know they. 00:17:48:05 - 00:18:19:13 Speaker 2 LED the fans. They were loud shouting always sharing you on. Well yeah they was just been for that really good speedway fans and always, always stop by and change you on. So yeah they never and as I said I used to would go in and see them before the meeting and chat through all the fans and 00:18:19:14 - 00:18:27:19 Speaker 2 Find out if they have used words and, and, and make sure that they were having a laugh in it. 00:18:27:20 - 00:18:34:06 Speaker 1 So can you tell us about the dangers of the sport, personal injuries? 00:18:34:08 - 00:18:36:11 Speaker 1 And I understand that you bounce. 00:18:36:13 - 00:19:06:02 Speaker 2 Yeah, you do bounce. But I have got a very sad story because, one of my teammates in 87 who was, in in answer, we was down practicing in Kent, and he got killed in the race with me, but I wasn't involved in the crash, but I was in the race and that. Yeah, we was practicing with down there with some others and he, come off and got killed. 00:19:06:04 - 00:19:18:15 Speaker 2 So that was it was a hard time because we'd both come up practicing together and learning together. So it was quite hard losing. Losing your team mate. Yeah. 00:19:18:17 - 00:19:22:00 Speaker 1 Have you had any injuries? 00:19:22:02 - 00:19:27:05 Speaker 2 Not to too much. 00:19:27:07 - 00:19:45:21 Speaker 2 Dun Dan, bone in my leg and tibia. But mostly just bruises. Really? Is this this? This? Mostly nothing. I was lucky enough. I didn't really break. Break anything. I must have been made out of Tonka to it or something. I don't know. 00:19:45:23 - 00:19:49:13 Speaker 1 Was that unusual not to have. 00:19:49:15 - 00:20:19:19 Speaker 2 Yeah. People did did get a break. I just was lucky not to. Not to hurt. I mean, I had big crashes, but I didn't actually break anything. I mean, I'd come home and I'd have to skin or no legs and you'd have bruises. I mean, I got hit in the back by a bike, and I had a bruise right across my back and like that a lot. 00:20:19:21 - 00:20:37:00 Speaker 2 And you'd come home from a race mean if you'd had a big trash, you can't even have the weight of a sheet or anything on you, but you still can't. You don't want to go out and later, you know, you still can't wait to get back on the bike. You like to be hanging off, you still want to get on the plate. 00:20:37:02 - 00:20:58:22 Speaker 2 And so man, even now when we go to waiting, you see people when they have a big crash and they, they can't wait to get back on. And I said I'm was in a meet. And then the bloke crashed and his bone was sticking that leg and he said, oh, tape it up. He said, I know I'm out of it. 00:20:59:00 - 00:21:08:20 Speaker 2 He says, I've got a chance of winning this on. Tape it up and I'll have it sorted out after he said, you can't have a broken bone in your leg, but that's how it is. 00:21:08:22 - 00:21:10:04 Speaker 1 So they stop him? 00:21:10:09 - 00:21:44:03 Speaker 2 Yeah. They wouldn't let him. Even when I found my collarbone, I wanted to go. I didn't have it back in. And they said, you can't, it's not. You can't ride anymore. So yes, I think that you were draining in as well, you know, but, it was interesting just part of it. So as I said to me, he said a speedboat ride is always on his way to his next accident because, you know, we get a lot of there is a lot of crashing. 00:21:44:05 - 00:21:58:08 Speaker 2 But when you're there on a track with no on a speedboat, a motorbike with no brakes, there's going to be big crashes. But even if they had breaks, it would still be crashes. But, 00:21:58:10 - 00:22:00:01 Speaker 1 One of the people of interviewed said. 00:22:00:01 - 00:22:00:23 Speaker 5 That. 00:22:01:00 - 00:22:05:08 Speaker 1 Part of the problems, if someone falls off, there's a bike coming up behind you, like you said. 00:22:05:10 - 00:22:31:17 Speaker 2 Yeah, well, you have to. When I went to a training school for Barry Thomas, who was a hackney rider, and we went there to learn, and the first thing you had just doing was laying the bike down. So if someone comes up in front of you, lay the bike down so you don't, you know, so you can slow down and hit without hitting them. 00:22:31:21 - 00:22:36:08 Speaker 2 And so you had to learn to do that. 00:22:36:10 - 00:23:06:13 Speaker 2 Yeah. Just we'll drop the bike, literally come into the corner, bring the bike down and and trying to grab the bar in a bit and slowed the bike down because if someone's, yeah, but it's still better than it is somebody else, you might might lose you near a bit, but it's, it's better than hitting somebody. So it always got to get out there and get out of trouble as quick as you got into it. 00:23:06:14 - 00:23:09:07 Speaker 1 So such a split second decision. 00:23:09:08 - 00:23:37:19 Speaker 2 Yeah it is. It's like you have to be ready for it and just literally be quick to figure it out. Some people see some ideas are a bit like a rabbit in the headlights and they they don't do it and they but you've got to get the bite down and try and avoid them. You can't always miss people, but do your best to and hopefully they'll do the same if you come off so. 00:23:37:21 - 00:23:46:12 Speaker 2 But sometimes you've only got a closer than you and someone comes up in front of you and you've got to drop the bike straight away. 00:23:46:14 - 00:23:50:00 Speaker 1 So 80 miles an hour. 00:23:50:02 - 00:23:55:24 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. So it's just one of them things you have to learn. 00:23:56:01 - 00:24:03:17 Speaker 1 So how did the economics work in terms of other jobs, sponsorships, costs? 00:24:03:19 - 00:24:32:20 Speaker 2 Well, I was I was moving so my boss wasn't too bad. I could get the time off when I needed to. And Wednesday nights was all right because I was in here. So only was working local. But it's only when you go away. Really. But it's still the money side of it. Is is always like getting an amount of up to scratch to get to the meetings. 00:24:32:22 - 00:24:56:04 Speaker 2 It's it's subtle thing. I didn't have any sponsors. I've been. Well, I need to be white. Sponsored me. He gave me a 1,500 pounds, which paid for the engine and carburetor and stuff like that. He was going to buy me a complete bike if he won the World Championships. But unless he didn't do it, he didn't win the World Championships. 00:24:56:06 - 00:25:17:02 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's Lucas, so he had snooker. Yeah. But he's he's still still speak to him now and he's seen me on Facebook. Me on the back on the bikes. He went. You're not back on their mad things again. He went I'm not helping you this time. 00:25:17:04 - 00:25:17:22 Speaker 2 So. 00:25:17:24 - 00:25:21:18 Speaker 1 So did it take up a lot of your wages? 00:25:21:20 - 00:25:25:00 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah. 00:25:25:02 - 00:25:49:15 Speaker 2 Yeah. Traveling. And it's maintaining the bike really. Because you've got to put new tires on it. The tires only last a couple of meetings and you change the tires and lucky enough, when I was riding the Windward and the fuel, when the oil was supplied by the, by the, Wimbledon Speedway and sometimes they give you tires. 00:25:49:15 - 00:26:13:22 Speaker 2 So that helped. But, yeah, it's just all the traveling and everything really is mostly paid by you. But the only I was really racing just because I loved it, you know, it's, there was nothing was never there to to be wearing in big money. I was there because I love the races. They said, give me nothing or pay. 00:26:13:23 - 00:26:26:24 Speaker 2 I still love because I just love even now. I love being on the bike. There's not the feeling like it when you're belting on a track, you know. 00:26:27:01 - 00:26:33:03 Speaker 1 Can you describe your relationship with other team members managers? 00:26:33:05 - 00:27:07:19 Speaker 2 I got on well with most of the team members. There was there was a couple, but most of the team mates all all. I got on fine with them and we were we'd had a good laugh and they said they never knew what I was going to do next. So even the fans, the Pitman loonies, at the end of the season, they used to write about each rider and they wrote about all the main riders, and they said, now for the real, find the the season with Mad Dog pulling, you never know what he's going to do. 00:27:07:20 - 00:27:37:23 Speaker 2 You never know what he's going to turn napping or and he said they always got time for the fans always, you know. And that was really a really lovely thing for him to say. And then when I packed up in, yeah, at the end of the season, one of the board members, he said to me, because he managed a meet in Eastbourne and I rode in virtually every race, and my bike was in every race, and we needed one. 00:27:38:00 - 00:27:43:00 Speaker 2 It was only I was so tired I couldn't. 00:27:43:02 - 00:28:08:06 Speaker 2 Coldly. And he said no one could have put as much effort in. He said, any time you, when it comes to Wimbledon, said, you might be my guest. So that was a really nice people to say as well. So yeah, I was, I think I was quite well liked by the fans and, and people and the other riders. 00:28:08:08 - 00:28:22:06 Speaker 2 We always used to have a good laugh on the way there and on the way back when it gets serious when you're racing. But, I always made sure that I had a had a good laugh. 00:28:22:08 - 00:28:24:03 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about rivalries. 00:28:24:04 - 00:28:24:14 Speaker 5 And. 00:28:24:17 - 00:28:28:10 Speaker 1 And competition? 00:28:28:12 - 00:28:50:10 Speaker 2 There's always there's always when you're in competitions. You want to win. Even though I mean, even now I go to a meeting in the veterans and they also just there for a bit of fun. I'm not worried about winning it, but you put your clash on it, on you get on the bike that goes out the window. You want to win. 00:28:50:13 - 00:29:15:06 Speaker 2 You're not you're not there to be, you know, and you're 16 or 17 again when you're back on the bike, you know. So but we're it is right for me. But it's my, my mate who when I was first learning he's still really good mate now and we'd, we'd bring each other because we were racing so hard against each other. 00:29:15:07 - 00:29:41:14 Speaker 2 But when we came back in the pits, we was always mates. There was never any, any, thing with us. We never. You get some riders, they want to fight if something's happened, you know. But, lucky enough, I wasn't. I didn't really have too much rivalry. There was only maybe one Rodney Pain, and we didn't really get through well together. 00:29:41:14 - 00:29:47:22 Speaker 2 But other than that, most of the riders I got on fine with. 00:29:47:24 - 00:29:48:14 Speaker 1 Robbie Payne. 00:29:48:19 - 00:29:53:13 Speaker 2 Wimbledon, Rodney, Rodney Payne of Wimbledon. There he rode Wimbledon when I was riding. 00:29:53:19 - 00:29:55:00 Speaker 1 On your team. 00:29:55:02 - 00:30:10:01 Speaker 2 Yeah, he was a team mate, but we we clashed a bit. We're friends on Facebook now, but at the time we, we didn't actually gone too well. So. 00:30:10:03 - 00:30:15:07 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about some of the characters of the sport? 00:30:15:09 - 00:30:30:23 Speaker 2 Plenty of characters, which was quite a character he was quite excited to. And else, I think, you know. 00:30:31:00 - 00:30:36:24 Speaker 1 But what way was he a character? 00:30:37:01 - 00:30:59:02 Speaker 2 I think he used to do singing and it was and stuff. He had brought out record. Yeah. And they were just they were just, I think most of the speedway riders are characters. We all wheel quite mad. I think you've got to be pretty mad to get on the speedway, but with no brakes, you know, and then, you know, you got to be pretty mad. 00:30:59:04 - 00:31:23:13 Speaker 2 So there's always, there's, there's quite a lot of characters in the sport, I think. Maybe not so much. They're more serious nowadays. You haven't got the same characters, but in most books now, you haven't got the same characters as you had years ago. But. 00:31:23:15 - 00:31:26:12 Speaker 1 Some people have mentioned skullduggery. 00:31:26:14 - 00:31:30:06 Speaker 4 It's like. 00:31:30:08 - 00:31:35:23 Speaker 1 Pushing others off or riding too hard or dirty riding. 00:31:36:00 - 00:31:56:06 Speaker 2 They can't be that. But what some people will do is they'll tell you the wrong they they like when you get in the bikes up. I've known people who are team mates and they tell the other team mate the wrong gearing because they because they think they're threatening their team place and things like that. That goes on a bit. 00:31:56:07 - 00:32:12:12 Speaker 2 And people even like, I have a major, I think you should do it right the wrong. Getting gear in on his, on his gearing so that people might be looking and they'll be putting the wrong gearing on and things like that. 00:32:12:14 - 00:32:15:21 Speaker 1 What difference does that make to the race? 00:32:15:23 - 00:32:42:04 Speaker 2 We've got a single. You did a track, you put the, gears because you ain't got a gearbox, so you've only got to drive. So you've got, say a 61, two, four, 62 and that over the bike to drive harder or spin more and they put them on gearing. So you think, and you put that on and it it won't be the right game for the track. 00:32:42:05 - 00:32:44:16 Speaker 2 You know, they tell you the wrong things. 00:32:44:20 - 00:32:49:18 Speaker 1 So if, if you knew someone did that would you think badly of them. I mean is. 00:32:49:19 - 00:33:12:15 Speaker 2 It if he did say if he attained mate maybe if you should team mate, you should be honest. But then people will. Sometimes they just want to win and they'll just do that. Especially if they think their team place is going to be under threat. If you're youngster coming through, you know. But it's not it's not too much. 00:33:12:16 - 00:33:37:01 Speaker 2 It's it's more having a well I find it's more having a laugh, but maybe in the more serious in the top flight, maybe that happens more with pulling strokes. I know people at the start, you can't move at the start, so they'll twitch their hands just so that it caused them a person to move and then they get screwed. 00:33:37:05 - 00:34:00:02 Speaker 2 I've seen that happen quite a lot because when you're at the start, you must you can't move to the tapes go up, but if you move a little bit, you get, you get, a warning. And if you do it again, you get thrown out of the race. So it's a bit of that goes on. I've seen I've seen them doing that. 00:34:00:04 - 00:34:04:19 Speaker 1 Did you ever know of anyone losing on purpose or. 00:34:04:21 - 00:34:11:21 Speaker 2 Race? No. Not really, no, nothing like that. 00:34:11:23 - 00:34:20:07 Speaker 1 You said that your wife wasn't happy about speedway and the cost. So can you tell us how speedway impacted your family life? 00:34:20:09 - 00:34:40:14 Speaker 2 Where it took them? A lot of my time. You know, because when you're not racing, you're back at home, you're working on the bike, cleaning the bike. So I'd be, you know, go to work, come home and I'd be down and getting the bike ready to race for the for Wimbledon or getting it ready for the weekend. 00:34:40:15 - 00:34:57:10 Speaker 2 So it it did take a lot of time and going to get stuff for the bike. So probably it, it it probably was my, my hope because maybe not spend enough time at home. 00:34:57:12 - 00:34:59:21 Speaker 1 So she wasn't happy with. 00:34:59:23 - 00:35:04:10 Speaker 2 The money and like spent a bit and just how much time it took up. 00:35:04:11 - 00:35:06:00 Speaker 1 So she gave you an ultimatum. 00:35:06:01 - 00:35:25:15 Speaker 2 Yeah. So and I chose them and then we still ended up splitting up, so, you know, but I've got my mum, she moved to France with the boys, so I've gotten back. Eventually they come back. 00:35:25:16 - 00:35:29:09 Speaker 1 You said you had a son, did you? Was he involved in. 00:35:29:11 - 00:35:54:20 Speaker 2 Oh, sorry. No. He used to come and watch and he didn't. He'd never made and he'd never done no speedway. And my son used to come into the when I had to go into the, with Pitman loonies. He used to come in with me and they got him a little t shirt. He had mad Pat, so they got me a T-shirt with Mad Dog on it. 00:35:54:20 - 00:36:11:21 Speaker 2 Give him a mad Pat the marbles, son. Logan, come along. And they put a number 60, said Mad PAP to the sequel. So that's why you should have a good laugh with the with the with the fans. 00:36:11:23 - 00:36:23:09 Speaker 1 Can we talk? We're going to. I've got some questions about racing generally. Can you describe a race day when will then leading up to the race itself, like the crowd, the preparation, any rituals? 00:36:23:11 - 00:36:45:21 Speaker 2 A lot of mine has got rituals and superstitions. They always sit in the same place and they'll they'll, put their race gear on a certain way. They'd put either they'd have to be like putting the sock on this, but on everything in a certain way. I mean, I've known riders were getting ready and they said to me. 00:36:45:23 - 00:36:53:14 Speaker 2 Did I put that? Well, let's look on, I know, and they take it all up again and start again. 00:36:53:17 - 00:36:56:07 Speaker 4 Could you. 00:36:56:09 - 00:37:22:16 Speaker 2 No, no, no, no, but I do like to, sit some certain places and they've got a sort of thing I like to do, but not not too mad. Not as extreme as that. Yeah, he would if you. I turn it once on purpose. And now you put it on and he took it all up again, and he he started again. 00:37:22:16 - 00:37:49:23 Speaker 2 But there's certain colors people won't wear green. A lot of people won't wear green. Well, they just say something like this and, this sort of thing. They don't even getting on the bike the certain way. Some some, you know, and a vigil when you go up to the start, they'll, they'll do stuff when they go up to the tapes, certain things. 00:37:49:24 - 00:37:51:00 Speaker 4 So you said. 00:37:51:03 - 00:37:54:08 Speaker 1 Before that you went to talk to the fans. 00:37:54:10 - 00:38:23:23 Speaker 2 Yeah. Always. When. Yeah. Always, always been in the same. Because I was racing later on, I'd always go in and sat with them and and sit and have a laugh with them all really. But because they come in and see you, so you've got a, you've got to spend time, you know, and I love the fans anyway, they was, they was, good. 00:38:24:00 - 00:38:50:03 Speaker 2 It was a funny thing. We all come for me, you know, the saber center. I was in there with my little boy shopping, getting some shopping, and these two girls kept looking round, pointing. So my son went, dad, he went. Them two girls keep pointing at you. I went, man, I'm looking. Anyway, one of them came over when he was pulling you by for Wimbledon. 00:38:50:06 - 00:39:11:17 Speaker 2 I said, yeah, I said, what are you doing in there? I said, I'm shopping. I said, I'm, you know, you have to get shopping and went, oh, I said, you know, I'm just getting shopping with my boy. Anyway, we walked away and Louis meant to me. I'm telling mum, I'm telling mum you so. 00:39:11:19 - 00:39:33:04 Speaker 2 But that was quite funny. And as I say, I still see old fans and there are still fans to come and watch this race now. Women, the fans who who come and watch us and always make sure now, even now, I can't see them before the meeting and chat to them and get them cheering. 00:39:33:06 - 00:39:37:17 Speaker 2 And getting to the opposition. 00:39:37:19 - 00:39:43:11 Speaker 1 So could you describe the thrill of the race? 00:39:43:13 - 00:40:18:09 Speaker 2 Well, it's before meeting starts. If you get out of line, you feel sick. You feel you've got you don't know, you know, it's like this. You know, it's I think it's adrenaline, but. And a bit of nerves not not being. It's not scared. It's just been. It's just nerves. But. And then you go out for your first race, you get to the tapes and as soon as then tapes go up, all that goes and you're in, in and you ain't, you ain't. 00:40:18:11 - 00:40:40:24 Speaker 2 They seem to just go and then you're racing and it's a, it was just, that feeling all goes. But I was talking to a top rider, Dave Jessop, and I said, I said I'd get to. He went, we'll get that. He said, if you don't get that, you shouldn't race. He said, we all get really? He said, oh, I get it. 00:40:41:00 - 00:40:50:09 Speaker 2 Tell me about the fliers. So you don't know what you want you want to do, and said as soon as the meeting starts it close, which unless what happens. 00:40:50:15 - 00:40:55:12 Speaker 1 You have to concentrate a lot of concentration when you're writing. 00:40:55:14 - 00:41:18:06 Speaker 2 I concentrate when you get to. I used to mess about it. Even now, I mess about a lot before I go into a race. But once I sit on the bike and I go down and then you, I focus. Some people, they won't even talk. They can't talk. This it in there and they're in a meeting and they know they can't do all that laughing and joking. 00:41:18:07 - 00:41:41:00 Speaker 2 They're they're deadly serious. But there's some ideas. We all got different ways of coping with it. I mean, I always like having a laugh with the riders. And when you when you get to the tapes and you're going out or to get on the bike, that's when you get serious. So but some people, they can't even talk properly. 00:41:41:02 - 00:42:07:06 Speaker 2 I got a mate. I was helping him and went out in that for. What is it? Is this the. He's, You know, he's just not not got the same approach. He's serious, and, he can't go enough with him. He's just serious because he's racing. But everyone's different. I suppose. 00:42:07:08 - 00:42:13:17 Speaker 1 You've already talked a little bit about this, but can you tell us about the skills and tactics of a race and any dark arts? 00:42:13:18 - 00:42:20:24 Speaker 4 Dodgy tactics? 00:42:21:01 - 00:42:38:07 Speaker 2 You you have a plan A when you go into the thing. Well, I used to this. I look at the mind and do it in the race with me. And I think you sort of try and figure out what they're going to do as well, and you see what great you. And I think I've got to try and make a good start. 00:42:38:07 - 00:43:00:04 Speaker 2 But if you don't make a good start, then you've got to do a, a plan B, either decide to go around the outside or cut back. So you sort of figure figure in your in your mind what you're going to do, but usually you're just trying to get out of the star as fast as you can really, and then see how it goes. 00:43:00:06 - 00:43:32:11 Speaker 2 But, yeah, it you have a plan, but you don't really think that you like people, do you? Well, saying that when at the start the ones on the inside a point in this way, the ones on the outside, the point pointing that like this way coming into a corner. So it's like a funnel. So when you go to start all three, you always mean basically for the same spot and ever gets there first. 00:43:32:16 - 00:43:57:08 Speaker 2 It's like you come across this way to stop these ones and they come across this way to to start you down. So if there is it's not a very wide in. But you've got to be hard. You've got to be I'm getting to that corner first. So and so you're all it's recharge in and get set first basically. 00:43:57:10 - 00:44:28:14 Speaker 2 And then but yeah you I wouldn't say 30 tactics. It's just, just you've got to come across to slow these that make these so these down and you're trying to push them out to get if, if they get there first you, you can't get round the corner. So it's all just tactics you know of the start. And then after that it's it spreads out and you work out what you're going to do after that. 00:44:28:14 - 00:44:44:23 Speaker 2 But that's the most exciting part of the race to me, is when then waiting for them tapes to go up and into the first corner is the going. And it's, you know. 00:44:45:00 - 00:44:46:10 Speaker 4 Okay, we're going to. 00:44:46:12 - 00:44:55:12 Speaker 1 Focus on Wimbledon Stadium. What made Wimbledon Speedway Stadium special? 00:44:55:14 - 00:45:24:08 Speaker 2 It was I mean, I went into a lot of tracks and they didn't have the facilities we had. It was almost it was all the way round was undercover. Seating and it was just a really lovely stadium. I mean, even even in the pits, I mean, the pits was a underneath underneath the grandstand. Most, most pits are outside. 00:45:24:09 - 00:45:51:03 Speaker 2 So when you warmed the bikes up, you got 16 bikes or something like that, all warming up at the same time, and the fumes, and you had to be screaming but, you know, didn't see. But yeah, it was and it was very noisy down there. But it was, it was very lovely pits, but probably no good for your health. 00:45:51:05 - 00:46:19:11 Speaker 2 But but as I said then you came out from, from under the tunnel bit coming out, which was always nice. But the stadium was to me. I mean, I used to go to the dogs with my dad and stock cars with some of my mates and speedway, so I was always there. So I was always at the stadium. 00:46:19:13 - 00:46:22:18 Speaker 2 So. 00:46:22:20 - 00:46:30:20 Speaker 1 Can you describe the atmosphere at Wimbledon? I mean, you did spend, but anything else about the atmosphere? 00:46:30:22 - 00:47:01:23 Speaker 2 It was always a good atmosphere, but when there was a big international meetings like individuals and that, and you'd have to get really early to, to get in because there cuz would be. And you had all the top riders in, in the country riding and the atmosphere would be brilliant. The place would be packed. It was, it was a really, really nice and all the top riders. 00:47:01:23 - 00:47:28:13 Speaker 2 So you had really good racing. But you would have to get there early after you wouldn't get get a seat or be where you want it to be. But they have all the coaches outside in the car apart from Bellevue, all the top, all the different clubs would be there and they have the National League riders, which was the second division there was there. 00:47:28:14 - 00:47:55:23 Speaker 2 There's like well final there, a championship and you'd have them and all their fans who you didn't see there, you know, because we was in the top league, they was in the second league. You didn't really see them riders a lot, but that was like a world final for the National League writers. And it was that atmosphere was really good and bad. 00:47:55:23 - 00:48:19:08 Speaker 2 Come out and then after you never it was it was a really lovely atmosphere. So it into to watch. I never loaded in like but yeah there was certain meetings was was really good but all the racing was really good. 00:48:19:10 - 00:48:30:03 Speaker 1 What was it like being part of the Wimbledon community? 00:48:30:05 - 00:48:32:13 Speaker 2 What do you mean, being a Wimbledon well, being. 00:48:32:14 - 00:48:33:11 Speaker 4 Yeah. I mean. 00:48:33:12 - 00:48:38:16 Speaker 1 You talk about your relationship with the fans, but with the rest of the staff and. 00:48:38:17 - 00:49:01:16 Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, because I was a supporter before when, you know, like the ones who weren't in the bowl and people who weren't there on and, you know, in the terraces and on the gates. So those are all really nice people and always had a laugh with them all, but always, always had an ability of making people laugh. 00:49:01:16 - 00:49:08:07 Speaker 2 So. I was in the wife. 00:49:08:09 - 00:49:22:11 Speaker 2 But yeah. What was that a good sense of humor. So that's how I get the nickname Mad Dog, because who was doing man things and thinking that man's things to do? 00:49:22:13 - 00:49:29:07 Speaker 1 Just looking at back in particular days. What was your best day at Wimbledon? 00:49:29:09 - 00:49:46:23 Speaker 2 Every time I rode it, Wimbledon was the best, best day. I just loved racing for Wimbledon any. I just felt honored to be providing for him. No, I wasn't a top rider. I was always tried my hardest when I wrote to him. 00:49:47:00 - 00:49:55:11 Speaker 1 And and said, what was your worst day at Wimbledon? 00:49:55:13 - 00:50:20:17 Speaker 2 Packing up, really when I said I was going to pack up. So that was that was a sad day. I when I sold my bike, I had in my eyes, I didn't want to sell it, but I did wish I hadn't have now because I got I wish I kept it, but yeah, the time is not the right thing to do. 00:50:20:19 - 00:50:43:19 Speaker 2 But, and it was hard to come and see speedway when you know, because I know I want to get back home. And then John asked me to get back on the bike, to come down, just to say farewell to the stadium. And I got on a boat. One got on it and I wonder what? I'm still doing this and that's it. 00:50:43:20 - 00:50:49:24 Speaker 2 Racing again. I didn't realize how much I missed it, so I got back on the bike. 00:50:50:01 - 00:50:55:17 Speaker 1 So you can do that for 20 years? 00:50:55:19 - 00:51:06:18 Speaker 2 Yeah. How long it's been now? It's been a while. Yeah, it is so. But I still love it. 00:51:06:20 - 00:51:08:06 Speaker 1 New bike. 00:51:08:08 - 00:51:45:21 Speaker 2 I've got seven bikes now. Only have one then. I've got seven now, so. And, lucky enough, as I said, this year or last year, I rode in in England verses Scotland last in the past meetings. So I was up at a Glasgow, Bewick, Workington, Ipswich and Oxford and Paul and Leicester, so I was over the place. A lot of these tracks had never been there before, so it was, and with a proper crowd again. 00:51:45:23 - 00:52:05:03 Speaker 2 So it was nice to go out and I've done the same thing and went out and see the crowd like I used to and, and had a laugh with them. And at the end of the meeting I walked in and said, For Manchester, all. So. 00:52:05:05 - 00:52:11:24 Speaker 1 Okay, some final questions. How did the closure of Wimbledon Stadium affect you? 00:52:12:01 - 00:52:38:18 Speaker 2 Is it is it going to see it going because it wasn't just a speedway, it was I'd been the dogs had been to the with my dad and and stock cars and it's always been there. So it was hard. It was hard. But I've done new things here. I have south down the building with John in all this gear. 00:52:38:20 - 00:52:41:12 Speaker 1 In the open. 00:52:41:12 - 00:53:08:10 Speaker 2 I think it was when I, we. Yeah. Over there down the I think that will may be one of the walls I observed down with John. That was a few years ago. Yeah. I know I fell from the top bit first because I had this boots on and it was wet and. Yeah. And because my leg turns in, I slept. 00:53:08:10 - 00:53:28:20 Speaker 2 It was raining, but I'm not scared of it. So. Because I was a roofer. But as we came over, I slipped. So I fell the first bit. But I was probably the oldest one who went down there that day as well. So that was quite fun. 00:53:28:22 - 00:53:35:17 Speaker 1 I know you are still a speedway rider, but looking back, what is your life as a speedway rider mean to you? 00:53:35:19 - 00:54:09:13 Speaker 2 I mean it means a I'm proud to have been in the speedway, but I wish maybe I could have done better, but at least I got so damn what I love to do. So you can't ask more than that. So. And I was honored to ride for Wimbledon. So that was an in the top flight. I was riding the second team, but you couldn't have asked me. 00:54:09:15 - 00:54:53:05 Speaker 2 I think I could in that, you know, and it was a great honor to ride for Wimbledon. So and even now I still like to win. Winning if I ride in meetings now, I. We've had a few meetings where we organized a Wimbledon team, though it's hard to get. I tried to get to do any Wimbledon connections because there was a couple of other riders who did ride at Wimbledon, but because I would have been older now, it's hard to get get lighters with a connection, but I, I did try to get a team with Wimbledon connections with it, which I had about three of three of us who was in it. 00:54:53:07 - 00:54:59:17 Speaker 2 So but it's harder because people pack up so. 00:54:59:19 - 00:55:00:22 Speaker 1 Get injured. 00:55:00:24 - 00:55:31:23 Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, we just last year, one of our mates is 75. He was in a race and his plane broke, and he's done his spine and he's in a wheelchair now and they're trying he's trying to stay positive, but he's he's not in a good way at the moment. He's he's broken his back. So, but he's in his 70s so it's not good. 00:55:31:24 - 00:56:00:04 Speaker 2 But he's, he's still staying positive and trying to get better. So he's got blood in his back like that. But it's a dangerous sport. I mean, I've lost a few mates in the time, probably. I've known about five riders get killed in the time I've been being raised in his mates. So it's not, it's, it's a but then you've got mates to get killed on the road. 00:56:00:05 - 00:56:23:22 Speaker 2 In no way. So. Well yeah. And there's a couple of mines and I know who packed up to me and got killed in car crashes. So I just think, my thing is, when it's your time, it's your time. It don't matter what you're doing, so you might as well do it. Because they say we say injuries. But I just think when it's your time. 00:56:23:24 - 00:56:29:08 Speaker 2 Whatever you're doing, it's your time. So that's how I think. 00:56:29:09 - 00:56:36:09 Speaker 1 But is there anything you'd like to tell us that we haven't yet covered? 00:56:36:11 - 00:56:39:21 Speaker 2 It probably is, but. 00:56:39:23 - 00:56:44:14 Speaker 1 Just see if anyone else has any questions from Dave. 00:56:44:16 - 00:56:48:19 Speaker 6 No, I definitely I do know. 00:56:48:21 - 00:56:54:13 Speaker 2 About. 00:56:54:15 - 00:57:08:02 Speaker 7 Wimbledon and let's keep it. Yeah. So a Wimbledon question about being up behind the tape and those moments before the race starts and the start and love to talk to that. 00:57:08:04 - 00:57:31:10 Speaker 2 Right. Yeah. We get to walk out to the, to the pits and you get on your bike and you start riding there and do a practice that then you, you figure out what, you know, what gate you're on. So would you come round if the meeting's already going? There's, there's that's where people have been pulling away. 00:57:31:16 - 00:57:53:11 Speaker 2 So you try and pick of that groove to get your tires in, try and see if you can get a straight one. And it's not too deep, because when you pull away, then the tire grips and it shoots you, you get a better stay, won't spin it, it'll shoot you out to start. So that's one of the things you do. 00:57:53:12 - 00:58:21:04 Speaker 2 That's why if you watch your speedway mate, they go up to the top and they're digging their foot in the ground and, and, you know, making it, making it a channel so they can put the back wheel in and then, then you got to the tapes, you just focusing, literally looking. They put the light on. But I never used to look at it like, because I think that puts me off. 00:58:21:04 - 00:58:44:03 Speaker 2 And you see them, they look to the left of the right to what pins to see when they move, because they say it gets you away quicker. But I just used to just focus on the tape and as soon as the tapes move, you go. And then as I say, you charge into the first bend and hopefully you're in front. 00:58:44:05 - 00:59:02:24 Speaker 2 But if you're, you're, you're trying to figure out I was going wide or, or cut back, you know, so usually the first lap is in the sort out where you're going to do. And then after that you're sort of trying to figure out a way, way past. 00:59:03:01 - 00:59:11:05 Speaker 1 Some people have talked about riders like Ronnie more coming in from from behind. And he'd catch up. Yeah. Particularly exciting for. 00:59:11:05 - 00:59:38:07 Speaker 2 Me if you come out, the track, you can get grip, especially if there's grip on the outside, people go to the outside and try and move around the outside. Go around the outside to pick up grip on the back wheel. Sometimes there's starting to meet and there's not usually much grip out there. But gradually the the the dirt moves out so the grip moves out. 00:59:38:07 - 01:00:08:13 Speaker 2 So you have to move. You gradually move out wider to the, to the fence. So but yeah, there's all different things that people do a swing round, cut back or try and go around the outside. It's but running more was. I never really saw him race, but he was a master round Wimbledon or everywhere, really. He was a world champion and everything and a really good team rider as well. 01:00:08:15 - 01:00:33:00 Speaker 2 I love his team mate home, and I was I always used to try and do that as well. If I'm in second, I wouldn't try and race the person. If I'm teammates in front, I sit behind and make sure we get a race of home about, you know, the points, then try and race each other. But, and sitting in second. 01:00:33:04 - 01:00:58:23 Speaker 2 So there's some they want to win. So they if you're invited in front and it's a team meeting, you need to sit behind. I learned that more from Cycle Speedway. Taught me a lot of track. Laughed because it's basically the same thing. But you're just on a on a push bike and it's not quite as as mad. 01:00:59:00 - 01:00:59:21 Speaker 1 Other questions. 01:00:59:23 - 01:01:00:11 Speaker 7 I just asked. 01:01:00:11 - 01:01:01:05 Speaker 6 Them. 01:01:01:07 - 01:01:10:10 Speaker 7 To that could you just talk about the physicality of the race? So you've just told us nicely about starting, but what's it doing to your body? Where is all the tensions on. 01:01:10:12 - 01:01:38:23 Speaker 2 Your arm it takes out of your arms? Sorry, it takes it out of your arms because it's quite a lot of strength. You have strengthen you arms because you're literally physically turning the bike. And double thing is, when you're amazing. It's not just about throttle. You're you're moving the hand on your foot because you can feel the bike. 01:01:38:24 - 01:02:16:06 Speaker 2 You got become one with the bike. So you're feeling what the bike's doing, but also your body weight is counteracting everything. So when you're coming around the corner, you're not. It's just not flat out. You're you're backing off and your body weight is moving about so that it so you get into traction to keep, keep, going forward where it's, you, you got to become like, everything that bikes doing, you can feel it, and you're moving to stay on the bike, basically, and get the grip. 01:02:16:06 - 01:02:24:09 Speaker 2 So you're, you might be moving back a little bit or forward a little bit to, to counteract what the bike's doing. 01:02:24:11 - 01:02:27:10 Speaker 1 What are you doing with your legs. 01:02:27:12 - 01:02:58:01 Speaker 2 Well, you put your leg down. So you actually. Yeah. You like this leg. This leg is your on. You got your bike, you got your foot. So that's like straight. And this leg is doing, you're literally putting this leg down as a counterbalance. But then as soon as the bike starts turning, you lift your leg off and then that's when you're using your body weight and this leg is turned. 01:02:58:04 - 01:03:24:12 Speaker 2 So this leg actually takes more strain in this leg because it's your it's bike pushing against your leg. So, but, it's, you have got to be fair, I probably not fit one, but then you have to be fit and a lot of body, but it's all your body's moving about with the bike anyway, so. But, 01:03:24:14 - 01:03:42:02 Speaker 7 Have you got any more stories? You seem to have quite a few stories of the things you did to earn your nickname, or as Mad Dog stories from your days at Wimbledon, or just interactions that any stories that you that stand out for you from your windward of days? 01:03:42:04 - 01:04:07:03 Speaker 2 Rodney well, Rodney pain when they were playing mates as I said, we wouldn't, we didn't. So you know you get these things to play a tune like getting a card, you know, like a birthday card, but you open it and it plays a tune. So I had just been that played the tune. So before he went out for his race, I stuck it inside his helmet. 01:04:07:04 - 01:04:14:11 Speaker 2 So when he went out to the race, he said he's going. 01:04:14:13 - 01:04:18:13 Speaker 2 So that was one of the things that. 01:04:18:15 - 01:04:20:10 Speaker 1 With you. 01:04:20:12 - 01:04:39:04 Speaker 2 He wasn't happy. No, he wasn't happy because he got it. He said, oh, I could hear his tone. He says he was going to play him a bit, but as I said, we we wasn't exactly friends. We were. But I don't. 01:04:39:06 - 01:04:40:21 Speaker 7 Any more stories. 01:04:40:23 - 01:04:51:02 Speaker 2 That were time. Every time when I broke down, I had to get to meet in and, 01:04:51:04 - 01:05:16:19 Speaker 2 We had a mini. So we tried to get the bike. We thought we'd get the bike in the mini, but we couldn't. So my dad had a transit roof rack, which were quite big. It was as big as the mini, so we bungee strapped that onto the roof, then put the speedway bike on top of the roof. And just that, that that probably wasn't safe. 01:05:16:19 - 01:05:38:13 Speaker 2 But we got to the track and began the meeting and everyone was going to Mickey because, you know, because we turned up and said, how did you get here with this? And but we got there and we done to meeting lucky enough it was over Hackney, so it wasn't too bad, but we probably would have got lucky enough. 01:05:38:13 - 01:06:07:20 Speaker 2 We didn't get pulled up by the police, so. Oh, another time coming back from pool and ran out of fuel. So I didn't know where to go, but we did a mobile or something. So, we put a police car pulled up and I said, well, do you know where the name is going? And he went, I said, that's ten miles down there. 01:06:07:22 - 01:06:27:20 Speaker 2 I mean, technology went there. He said, I tell what I'd do, jump in. I'll take you to the to the garage. He said, if I get a call, you'll have to get out, make your own way back. He said, well, what I'll do is I'll come back that way, and if I see you anyway, he took me and dropped me back. 01:06:27:22 - 01:06:53:11 Speaker 2 So that was all right. What else? Oh, another time I was going to a track and I didn't know where it was because we didn't have sat navs. And I see this, this car with this speedway team on it. Oh, he must be going there. So I followed him. Followed him like that. Three downs up he went. Oh. 01:06:53:11 - 01:07:13:10 Speaker 2 And she said my sons were down and they said, I'm not going there tonight. He went, but I can tell you where it is. And then another time I was following a rope. He had a speedway back on there. So all these stops, I stopped behind him. He meant, do you know where the track is? I went, now I'm following you. 01:07:13:11 - 01:07:47:03 Speaker 2 That was at Milton Keynes and we found it. But there's this mad things, coming back from Exeter was having a laugh when we finished. You always went to the fish shop, so we was in. I was with my mates and it had a a loose roof window, you know, so they, they were be funny to throw all their fish and chips into the roof of the car. 01:07:47:05 - 01:08:10:04 Speaker 2 So, so anyway, the police, they were pulled him out, made him so they got it. But usually we used to just have a really good low but quite boring drive into tracks. One day coming into somewhere. Then we go in. 01:08:10:06 - 01:08:34:03 Speaker 2 To build up to Manchester and, it's boring. It's a long way. So many had a game of invisible chess, but neither was nowhere to play. But it is, and I didn't think he would, I said. And my mate said I never thought he was well known neither, and wouldn't have thought he would even do it. He did. 01:08:34:05 - 01:08:47:07 Speaker 2 But so it's just mad things we did. I know that's not really, but but, it's just it's boring a bit when you're driving so. 01:08:47:08 - 01:08:52:14 Speaker 7 Nasty that for me anyway, there's. 01:08:52:16 - 01:09:05:11 Speaker 7 Jim home talks about the. You can tell the next slide by there walk. I can tell you you've got a certain walk. You talk about a bit just a bit about that. About if that's true. 01:09:05:13 - 01:09:30:04 Speaker 2 Yeah. Most people have I ever thought he walks I mean when we, when we went speedway in the 1770s with my mum and dad, my mum went all got the same walk that it's because she's got a steel shoe on. So that's one of the reasons. But everybody actually really smash your legs up. They've all got a limp. 01:09:30:04 - 01:09:56:07 Speaker 2 But my mind's worst, probably the only one else because my leg was already turned down a bad leg. So it's, but it's an occupational hazard that most of the speedway riders been injured or carrying injuries. Most of the by the end of the season, everyone's got injuries. They'll come in injuries because you have knocks and you just came in on because you got on you. 01:09:56:10 - 01:10:11:00 Speaker 2 There's a lot of them got their money. So if they live in so they lied through injuries. But that one's got a motorbike has got a limp from from cracking. 01:10:11:02 - 01:10:19:24 Speaker 1 Just question I forgot to ask earlier. When did you start being called Mad Dog? 01:10:20:01 - 01:10:45:10 Speaker 2 My mate said you have any major. He said. He said because I was mad. He just said, you have mad dog. That's it. And then stuck with me. No one ever given it. You can't. He just said Mad Dog getting the fans around it, and they all liked it. And that was it. I was that was in the 80s. 01:10:45:10 - 01:10:53:07 Speaker 2 Yeah. So mad. Mad though. Since. Since then. Yeah. 01:10:53:08 - 01:11:11:10 Speaker 2 He just said it just just come about so and even now still get called Mad Dog. I don't call me Mad Dog. And I said, well, you know, he was Mad Dog. We don't know your name, so. 01:11:11:11 - 01:11:22:20 Speaker 2 Yeah, he he's won his first called me Mad Dog and they all called me Mad Dog. The balloon. Don't call me Mad Dog. So it just stuck.