00:00:00:16 - 00:00:13:13 Speaker 1 This is Dermot Jones conducting an interview for the Speedway at Wimbledon Stadium Oral History Project on the 22nd of April 2026. And going to ask you some easy questions first. 00:00:13:15 - 00:00:15:06 Speaker 2 Oh that's okay. 00:00:15:08 - 00:00:17:07 Speaker 1 What is your name? 00:00:17:09 - 00:00:24:10 Speaker 2 I think my full name is Robert Harkins, but I'm Bert for short. 00:00:24:11 - 00:00:25:19 Speaker 1 And where were you born? 00:00:25:20 - 00:00:27:19 Speaker 2 In Glasgow. Yeah, yeah. 00:00:27:21 - 00:00:29:04 Speaker 1 What year were you born? 00:00:29:06 - 00:00:32:24 Speaker 2 Quite a long time ago. About 1940. So we were. 00:00:33:03 - 00:00:34:17 Speaker 1 About 1940. 00:00:34:19 - 00:00:38:03 Speaker 2 It was 1940. I was there at the time. 00:00:38:05 - 00:00:40:09 Speaker 1 And what did your parents do for a living? 00:00:40:15 - 00:01:13:08 Speaker 2 My dad was a fireman. My mom? Just a housewife, actually. And that's how I got involved with Speedway, that the Glasgow Tigers track at White City was within earshot of the fire station that we lived in. We lived at forest, and you could hear the bikes every Wednesday evening. And there was a little boy, but dad used to take me up towards the speedway, and if he was working night shift, one of the other firemen would take me to the speedway. 00:01:13:09 - 00:01:28:04 Speaker 2 So I got hooked, you know, because in Glasgow, most schoolboys wanted to play for Rangers or Celtic or something like that. But I wanted to be a speedway later. But it took a long time. 00:01:28:06 - 00:01:31:02 Speaker 1 What age were you when you were first taken? Do you know? 00:01:31:04 - 00:01:37:03 Speaker 2 I must have been about eight to eat alone, you know. 00:01:37:05 - 00:01:45:10 Speaker 1 And moving on. Yeah, a little bit later. Switched you as you were a rider. 00:01:45:12 - 00:02:12:03 Speaker 2 I started in the early 60s, but at that time in Scotland there are only two tracks. Edward Glasgow. And where about must have been 30 or 40 novices, all trying to get a ride on the track. So you would turn up at the track at Edinburgh, and once the problem between league meeting was finished, you would try to get a few laps practice, but there's so many novices trying to get over that. 00:02:12:04 - 00:02:21:20 Speaker 2 Sometimes you'll get a ride like four laps every two weeks or something, so it quite a long apprenticeship. 00:02:21:22 - 00:02:23:18 Speaker 1 You probably come on and said, how are you? Well actually. 00:02:23:22 - 00:02:26:01 Speaker 2 Yeah, you can. 00:02:26:01 - 00:02:30:13 Speaker 1 Cut out early 60s. And then when did you when did you stop being a writer? 00:02:30:15 - 00:02:40:03 Speaker 2 I stopped about 1980. Really? Yeah, but it did take me a few years to actually get into the team. So there was a slow start. 00:02:40:08 - 00:02:45:11 Speaker 1 So how do you actually first get into speedway itself? 00:02:45:13 - 00:03:15:07 Speaker 2 No, no, it's a little bit easier because there are treating schools. But at that time there weren't any training schools. And what I did. I was working the printer's motorcycle mechanic and at the time then there was no speedway at all. So I did one season road racing like Dale of man and some of the Scottish circuits. And then after that I saw that bike and bought a very, very old speedway bike that was falling apart. 00:03:15:07 - 00:03:17:22 Speaker 2 But that got me into speedway. 00:03:17:24 - 00:03:22:10 Speaker 1 And as you said, you turned up. We're very, very competitive. Small. 00:03:22:14 - 00:03:37:18 Speaker 2 Yes. Yeah. Everybody wanted to have some lopsided to try and get some practice and become a writer and eventually get signed on for a team. But it was it was difficult. 00:03:37:18 - 00:03:40:24 Speaker 1 But were you able to do that in Glasgow? Or did you have to move elsewhere? 00:03:41:01 - 00:04:05:06 Speaker 2 I did it never actually, although I lived from Glasgow the year I started, that was the only track there was. And when I eventually got the. What was that? You would work your way up into the novice races and if you did well, you'd get into the reserves races. And if you beat some of the reserves, you might get as reserve in the team. 00:04:05:11 - 00:04:13:04 Speaker 2 So it's like a progression tried to work your way up. So that's how I got into the advertisement reserve. It won stage. 00:04:13:06 - 00:04:14:20 Speaker 1 So as you said. 00:04:14:21 - 00:04:23:21 Speaker 2 Yeah. To turn used to be a success. 00:04:23:23 - 00:04:28:23 Speaker 1 And how did you end up at Wimbledon or when did you first enter Wimbledon. We got to that. 00:04:28:23 - 00:04:56:01 Speaker 2 Yes. No, there's a lot of stood out. Yeah, I was ready for it. They called bridge and then when they closed I say for Webley and when Webley closed that was the new the original Empire Stadium. They were racing there when they transferred to Sheffield. And by that time I wanted to go back to London to ride for Wimbledon. 00:04:56:03 - 00:05:22:17 Speaker 2 So I came down to four years for Wimbledon. But the other the other little story about Wimbledon, right at the very beginning of my career, when I was living in Glasgow, as I said, I was working as an apprentice motorcycle mechanic, like in Glasgow, and during the summer holidays. I wrote over the English tracks to try to get to practice, get some rights. 00:05:22:19 - 00:05:42:20 Speaker 2 And Roddy Green, the promoter at Wimbledon, who replied and said come down will fix another freeze for you. So I came down and had a couple of Dover races at Wimbledon, and at that time I didn't know that many years later I would be riding forward with them or two. Okay. 00:05:42:21 - 00:05:47:16 Speaker 1 I think that drew you to want to ride at Wimbledon, that experience. 00:05:47:18 - 00:06:04:19 Speaker 2 It did help because it was the first time I'd written an English track, and it was so different from the Scottish ones. Edinburgh. And it's just all experience. It's it does take time to become a speedway. Data. 00:06:04:21 - 00:06:15:00 Speaker 1 I've got a question here which we kind of answered, but I'll see if any extra comes out of it. Yeah. I mean, well, maybe how how did you get these skills to become a rider? 00:06:15:01 - 00:06:51:21 Speaker 2 And it's like many sports, you just got to try to practice and keep writing. But the difficulty with speedway, you could only really ride on a proper speedway track and with most of the stadiums are used for other things you couldn't write during the week on that particular track. So it's just a matter of writing as often as you can, and also watching what the top riders are doing and trying to see how they set the boats up and the way the ride, the track part of the ride. 00:06:51:23 - 00:07:06:10 Speaker 2 Because during the evening, the changes you got to change. Change gear with different sprockets and adapt your riding differently. So a lot of it is just watching people and see what they're doing. 00:07:06:12 - 00:07:09:14 Speaker 1 Over the course of the evening as you go on. 00:07:09:15 - 00:07:17:20 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Every, every, every March would let us something, you know, you'd watch and see what was going on. 00:07:17:22 - 00:07:24:03 Speaker 1 This is a question I think is going to be right up your street. How did you learn the connections for the. 00:07:24:07 - 00:07:27:11 Speaker 2 Oh. 00:07:27:13 - 00:07:45:14 Speaker 1 It was okay. I was finding one of the headphones a bit. I noticed that there was a kind of a bit like a bit lower and then it's okay. And it might be the headphones that were doing that, but we just look at the sound level. Yeah. The sound is fine. Yeah. Okay. 00:07:45:15 - 00:07:48:20 Speaker 2 So that's okay. That's okay. 00:07:48:21 - 00:07:55:04 Speaker 1 That's okay. Yeah. Have you learned to repair and maintain your bike again? 00:07:55:08 - 00:08:20:14 Speaker 2 A lot of it. Just loving on the job and talking to other writers and mechanics. And at the time, the two valve jobs are quite easy to work on. I started with the job, which was the English press, which which was a very difficult boat to ride. It did tend to sort of explode every day, and again with very expensive noises. 00:08:20:16 - 00:08:47:21 Speaker 2 And the Java from Ikea was much easier to ride and cheaper to maintain, and you could work on it yourself quite easily. So there weren't two two technical too difficult. You could always you could buy a new bike ticket out of the box and recently received eight. You know that that reliable really. So it just again it's all experienced as you go and you learn different things. 00:08:47:24 - 00:09:14:14 Speaker 2 What to do. You know change the coverage to jets and ignition timing. So it's all quite technical. But you get there and know the riders. The. So they use tuners. So they send the Indians away to have them tune by somebody else and they move on to cut out about 6 or 7 bikes there. Okay. Yeah. 00:09:14:16 - 00:09:16:08 Speaker 1 Would you have had a mechanic as well? 00:09:16:11 - 00:09:38:12 Speaker 2 I had somebody usually to as Bush Reuters did, put the fuel oil into the boat between races just to save you time. You maybe sit down to clean the gold and with me within glasses, it was always a bit of a handicap because you had towards the didn't steam up, so you had to treat them with the anti fog stuff. 00:09:38:12 - 00:09:56:08 Speaker 2 And as another set of lenses, if you're in a very wet meeting ready, Reuters could just take the goggles off and ride in the mud. But if I did that, I could feel did with the glasses and the to repair or replace rather. 00:09:56:10 - 00:09:59:16 Speaker 1 So effectively you are your own mechanic as well. 00:09:59:21 - 00:10:31:12 Speaker 2 Borderless? Yes. More or less. Yeah, yeah. Usually, as I say, it was just bushrangers were laid out like a thread would help with the fuel. And I'll just give you a little bit more time to prepare for the nick. Freezing. Although unfortunately. What occasion? My mechanic at that time, who was Dick Bardi from Scotland. He put the oil in the fuel tank, the fuel oil tank, and that didn't turn out too well. 00:10:31:14 - 00:10:33:03 Speaker 1 It's an easy mistake to make. 00:10:33:04 - 00:10:39:14 Speaker 2 No, but Dick was an easy person. 00:10:39:16 - 00:10:47:02 Speaker 2 We had to turn the bike upside down on its handlebars and all the fuel, and I'll come out to try and repair it. 00:10:47:02 - 00:10:51:00 Speaker 1 But you discovered it before you tried to run it. 00:10:51:02 - 00:10:58:19 Speaker 2 He discovered, as he was doing it. Sort of. Yeah. Wasn't the best of you. 00:10:58:21 - 00:11:00:23 Speaker 1 I ask you, are you still in contact? 00:11:01:00 - 00:11:04:08 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Would you sometimes. Yeah. 00:11:04:10 - 00:11:10:21 Speaker 1 Thank you. And can you describe your first big race at Wimbledon? 00:11:10:23 - 00:11:12:24 Speaker 2 For that reason self. 00:11:13:01 - 00:11:15:17 Speaker 1 Yeah. Big meeting. Yeah. 00:11:15:19 - 00:11:46:07 Speaker 2 Well, probably the biggest one I had in the early days was I had gone to Australia in the winter weather, had got into Edinburgh and I went to three in the winter, a pinball fair on the boat to go over the two six weeks on the ship. And I turned up at Melbourne and the promoter didn't want to give me a ride because he said, you know, very important test match with New South Wales of Victoria. 00:11:46:08 - 00:12:08:01 Speaker 2 But somebody didn't turn up that night. So in the end he had to put me in and just said, well, you've got to do your best. It's so important. So I went to my first race track record. I did it eat fruit, and in the end he was very happy and wanted me to stay there in Melbourne for the winter season. 00:12:08:01 - 00:12:19:06 Speaker 2 So that year I actually won a Victorian Championship and although it won some little cups in Scotland. This was quite an important one. So it was the first big one that I had. 00:12:19:10 - 00:12:22:19 Speaker 1 Did you return to Wimbledon with this sort of champion? 00:12:22:21 - 00:12:31:08 Speaker 2 Kind of not at that time. I was still writing and still writing for it. So I came back to Edinburgh and wrote for them again. 00:12:31:10 - 00:12:34:17 Speaker 1 And then a big a big meeting at Wimbledon. 00:12:34:19 - 00:13:19:01 Speaker 2 Yeah, there's quite a few, probably the most memorable one when working back over to race an oral championship. We arranged for just a friendly match, which was Wimbledon, with Roddy Burr, and I got a Scottish team together. We were called the Belt Harkins Haggis Patches and what I did, I bought a Huggies for each to give to each of the Wimbledon writer, and in the introductions on the grandstand in front and grandstand, each Scottish writer presented his opposite number with I guess, and I had to give mine to Roddy. 00:13:19:07 - 00:13:32:23 Speaker 2 I really looked at it, looked at and chucked into the code I had, I think. So we got concussion. I hit him in the head. But after that I didn't talk to you for a while. 00:13:33:00 - 00:13:38:10 Speaker 1 Not haggis fan. And how did the meeting go after that? 00:13:38:11 - 00:13:59:11 Speaker 2 It went very well. It was a good there was a good crowd, good atmosphere. And I also had the Scottish writers. I borrowed a whole lot of kilts. So for the parade at the beginning of the meeting, everybody had a top of the letters didn't race with on just for the parade, just for a bit of a show, really. 00:13:59:12 - 00:14:06:06 Speaker 2 And yeah, it was very good actually. But people still talk about it now, I think. 00:14:06:08 - 00:14:20:12 Speaker 1 So moving on from that. And you told us that you, you watched other ideas and you learned from them and you kind of the tactics. Who are your speedway heroes? 00:14:20:14 - 00:14:36:03 Speaker 2 In my schoolboy days. People like me and junior privilege. And then when you're actually riding, you got to treat all the riders the same. Although. 00:14:36:05 - 00:14:59:18 Speaker 2 Like with butter Briggs and Avon Media to go on federal with them and learn quite a bit from more from Ivan. Then buddy. Buddy was a bit haphazard on his machine preparation, but watching I even he was a super professional and he turned the sport around quite a lot. So you could learn that off lot just by watching Ivan, which I did. 00:14:59:20 - 00:15:05:23 Speaker 2 Yeah, sometimes I watched his bike wheel because I couldn't pass. 00:15:06:00 - 00:15:10:20 Speaker 1 Yeah. What would you say that then? That made him such a good and professional. 00:15:10:22 - 00:15:40:03 Speaker 2 Difficult to see. A very good mindset. Very sharp. And he studied everything very carefully. He had come over to ride for Wimbledon early on but didn't do very well. Also went back to Australia and when he came back to England to ride for Newcastle with so much better, a better writer, and he just brought a new professionalism into the sport and everybody copied what he was doing. 00:15:40:04 - 00:15:42:20 Speaker 1 So he lifted the whole standard. Did you say. 00:15:42:22 - 00:16:13:23 Speaker 2 He did change the sport? Quite a bit? Actually. He was one of the first go to the trailer with two bikes and people like myself. You had be a little bit of 31 with one bike stuck in the back, but it all worked too well and he he did help each team he went to. You know, he got a whole lot riding very professionally. 00:16:13:23 - 00:16:15:22 Speaker 2 So it was good. Yeah. 00:16:15:24 - 00:16:21:12 Speaker 1 Thank you. And can you tell us about your dreams and ambitions in those days? The early days. 00:16:21:13 - 00:17:07:06 Speaker 2 Like almost every rider you wanted to be. What a champion. But that's a big, big jump. Even at that time, to qualify for a water final was very difficult. You had to look three meetings, one at home to away, and the points on that had to get you to next stage, then the next stage and so on. And the closest I got to the individual water final was the 70s, actually, and I'd qualified through the British final was not final, which was a hundred park in Glasgow, which was more or less a home track for me. 00:17:07:07 - 00:17:32:07 Speaker 2 And if I qualified there I'd be through to the world final. But just a week before I broke my collarbone at Wembley and I had had all strapped up, it was only five days. I had all strapped up and still raised a hundred, but I had a come together with another rider rules and then came off again. So that wasn't too, too good. 00:17:32:07 - 00:17:50:05 Speaker 2 And as I was, all the Scottish writer left in the World Championship at the time and this was not final, was held handed. Poor old Roy wasn't altogether his fault. The crash. But we had to get a police escort out of Glasgow so the funds were not too happy. 00:17:50:07 - 00:17:52:21 Speaker 1 Scuppered there. 00:17:52:23 - 00:18:14:14 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, but but I did get to the water final with the what they call the world best pairs final with Scotland. Jim McMillan myself. We qualified through from Bellevue. What should we be? England as well and got through to the final in Sweden. So at least that was one water fighter we got to. 00:18:14:16 - 00:18:38:20 Speaker 1 Right. So this is section is your racing life. So can you give us a sweeping overview of your career as a rider you've touched on but. Oh yes. Yeah. Sorry I keep a general. Then go for something and we will we will need to focus in on movement. Yes. But yeah. Your kind of career as a rider. 00:18:38:22 - 00:18:42:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, this is. 00:18:42:24 - 00:19:06:15 Speaker 2 As a writer I always did keen to improve all the time. And that's why I went to a thriller to try and improve my recently. I've raised here the whole winter. So when I came back to this country, I was a better writer. And from there I started progress. So it was a matter of just each year trying to get better and better. 00:19:06:18 - 00:19:42:24 Speaker 2 And it was with Speedway. In those days you get allocated to just different tracks and as I say, we were closed down. We also caught Bridge in Scotland, who wrote for and then when they closed down to Wembley, and from One Blue to Sheffield, Sheffield to Wimbledon and then also the winter on the winters really I used to race in California as well, and one year I stayed the whole summer in California to race in the American League. 00:19:43:05 - 00:20:07:09 Speaker 2 On the team I rode for Bakersfield, we wondered what the world champs won the American championship, so that was pretty good. And then there's also the winter of South Africa as well. I wouldn't have a championship over there, so it was always very nice to be able to get sunshine in the wintertime and come back quite fit, ready to race. 00:20:07:10 - 00:20:12:01 Speaker 1 How did you come back to Wimbledon? Where were you racing when you were when you. 00:20:12:07 - 00:20:13:00 Speaker 2 In the beginning. 00:20:13:00 - 00:20:16:02 Speaker 1 Of the end of your towards the end of your career? Were you still at Wimbledon? 00:20:16:03 - 00:21:05:24 Speaker 2 I moved around quite a bit when I signed for Wimbledon. I was still living in Glasgow and then moved down to friends House, down to Watford, and then eventually we got married and we actually bought a house and near Watford left in green. So it's a peace deal with wrote for Wimbledon and then moved a couple of other times and nowhere near Berkhamsted in Hertfordshire and but with been based in Scotland, all the tracks were quite a long drive and we probably Bellevue, Manchester and Newcastle were the closest ones to classical, so you always had to leave yourself plenty of time to drive to get to the track. 00:21:06:01 - 00:21:16:21 Speaker 1 So do the equipment and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Cool. Yeah. So I'm always interested in this stuff. If you can describe the equipment and gear that you had at the time. 00:21:16:23 - 00:21:41:23 Speaker 2 In the beginning of the mentioned earlier, very old job, which I think was been just made after the war, that wasn't very good at all. And later the two from Czechoslovakia. Then from that you on to the Java. So these were what you call the upright engines, the modern boats in your life forward. So look at all authentic gravity. 00:21:41:23 - 00:21:50:17 Speaker 2 So the much different to ride the old the sports different now. But that was the bike side. 00:21:50:21 - 00:21:54:01 Speaker 1 Oh and what bike would you have mostly had Wimbledon. 00:21:54:03 - 00:22:21:23 Speaker 2 It would be the Java, the tube of Java. Yeah. And then for the equipment would have started. I could only for the look two piece of letters, like a leather jacket that I wore on the motorcycle and leather pants. And then you would progress to one piece letters which were much more comfortable. And then with the troops to America, I had made to measure American letters, which were very, very good. 00:22:22:00 - 00:22:36:14 Speaker 2 And knowing the boys are wearing a Kevlar suits, which are you could you could mobility. But you do need a lot of body armor underneath because there's no protection in the flowers. Yeah. 00:22:36:16 - 00:22:41:15 Speaker 1 And it may seem like a random question, but can you tell me about your boots? 00:22:41:17 - 00:23:10:19 Speaker 2 Yeah, one of the troops is through. I came across this cobbler and a horse riding place and his different boots, and he made me a bit measure. Pair of white boots. So I thought I'd give those a try and want to quote. Well, because, you know, I got quite a bit of publicity from it, which helped to get extra bookings in the speedway. 00:23:10:21 - 00:23:22:05 Speaker 2 The other thing was quite difficult to clean you to scrub, and I should have been sponsored by Kiwi White because I must have used gallons. Just getting the boots white again. 00:23:22:07 - 00:23:24:19 Speaker 1 Kind of your signature look, the white boots. 00:23:24:20 - 00:23:39:18 Speaker 2 I think so I think I mean, people have drawn paintings, action paintings and some of these little speedway rider models people have made, and they've always got the white boots with it. So that was the trademark. 00:23:39:20 - 00:23:40:08 Speaker 1 Nice. 00:23:40:08 - 00:23:41:11 Speaker 2 Thank you. 00:23:41:13 - 00:23:50:10 Speaker 1 And back to the kind of well continue on the equipment. Yes. And you kind of alluded to it. What are the main changes over time. 00:23:50:12 - 00:24:25:10 Speaker 2 The biggest one would be that Kevlar suits, plus the body armor is much more technical. Know we had protectors, but they see what the hostilities were wearing, which was like a form, a big form, part of doing your back. Unfortunately, the excuse us what they have now, but fortunately I always wore one and I brought my back at Wimbledon actually, and finished up like three months and like flat on my back. 00:24:25:16 - 00:24:35:20 Speaker 2 And without this protector, I think it would have been a wheelchair situation. So that that was an unhappy memory from Wimbledon. 00:24:35:22 - 00:24:43:09 Speaker 1 You might have to dig up some more unhappy, memorable memories because you've made us into the next question. Is the danger of the sport and your injuries? 00:24:43:15 - 00:25:14:09 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, it's quite a you do get quite a few. It's inevitable. I get hate Newick. And actually prior to that, I broke my leg in California and I had a pin in my leg and I was racing again. And when I broke my leg hotly, I was taken to Highclere Hospital, which was a very old Victorian hospital, looked very nice at all. 00:25:14:11 - 00:25:42:04 Speaker 2 And the junior doctor who looked to make this a Friday night, I looked at that and you could see the pin and the pin was holding the break apart. He said, oh, he said, it's only slightly broken. He said, he said the doctor will see you on Monday and it's a Friday late. But I was very lucky. My wife had Freddie Williams, who was widely world champion and two manager. 00:25:42:10 - 00:25:54:22 Speaker 2 They got me out of the hospital and took me to Stanmore Orthopedic, so they sorted out that night. But but there are a few other injuries to the. 00:25:54:24 - 00:25:56:10 Speaker 1 Broke your back at Wimbledon? 00:25:56:11 - 00:26:24:00 Speaker 2 Yes. Vertebrae actually knocked. Knocked about what happened. It was just a stupid fall. Actually it was near the end of the season and the track was a bit worse and greasy and just wanted the last races in the second half and I was leading, just slid off. And as I tried to go up one of the other riders right into my back. 00:26:24:02 - 00:26:46:22 Speaker 2 So that was it. And I was three months low, flat on my bike. So I took a trip to the through. And the worst part was that lied in hospital with the sun, you're quite near Heathrow. Who could hear the other planes go, go! I thought she'd be on one of those but didn't work. 00:26:47:03 - 00:26:54:01 Speaker 1 I was told to you. 00:26:54:03 - 00:26:57:12 Speaker 1 How did the economics of it work? Being a rider. 00:26:57:14 - 00:27:23:19 Speaker 2 The way it works. You compete points, money and start money. So much per point on the three points for a win. Two second, one for third. What do you become? A qualifier? A good, good enough rider. You could arrange like a signing on fee from the club and they would either piece from money or perhaps give you a bike. 00:27:23:19 - 00:27:50:15 Speaker 2 Or maybe there's much more money involved. No it is. The point of mine is much higher. But you had to keep writing and you could you could do all right. What a full time profession. Because you're riding midweek and all over the country and weekends in Germany, and you could really hold down a proper job. So this this was it. 00:27:50:17 - 00:28:10:20 Speaker 2 I took it a proper jobs where there was a a junior eventually got into that team and started to do well. But one of the who wasn't a speedway found at all. She used to always say, why don't you quit speedway, get a proper job? But what is a proper job for it? 00:28:10:22 - 00:28:16:13 Speaker 1 So a reasonable livelihood, so reasonable livelihood. 00:28:16:15 - 00:28:25:19 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Yeah. You could, you could make it P but yeah. As getting paid for what you like doing. So that helped. 00:28:25:21 - 00:28:30:18 Speaker 1 Can you describe your relationship with other team members and managers that kind of hold? 00:28:30:20 - 00:28:55:08 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a bit of a key. I have problems with any other riders or even team managers too. So I know that the old rider here in the has got a bit of a reputation and, you know, occasionally get run ins with them to. I did have a problem with one of my teammates, Edinburgh Webley actually right at eight. 00:28:55:09 - 00:29:11:06 Speaker 2 He was a rigid, very firing widget, very good writer, and we had a bit of a rider in it. He grabbed me by the quality, said that I will kill you. But I didn't work. We were okay. We're friends afterwards. 00:29:11:07 - 00:29:13:02 Speaker 1 And what about Wimbledon itself when. 00:29:13:02 - 00:29:19:23 Speaker 2 You were? Yeah, Wimbledon the whole time. God. Very well together. It was good. 00:29:20:00 - 00:29:22:04 Speaker 1 That his name green. 00:29:22:10 - 00:29:49:16 Speaker 2 O Roddy Green. Yeah. When I was riding for Wimbledon, Roddy Green had already retired, and I think he'd probably passed away by then. So who was a previous Wimbledon writer underwriter? Green. He was a manager promoter there and we all got very well, the whole team. And yeah, we would try to drive as everybody was very friendly, you know, no problems. 00:29:49:18 - 00:30:07:00 Speaker 2 So the good thing about Speedway is that between the public, the crowd and the riders and the staff, everybody like one big family stabbing each other in the back. No, everybody gets on very well together. 00:30:07:02 - 00:30:14:11 Speaker 1 Thank you. Well, now tell us about rivalries in competition. 00:30:14:13 - 00:30:17:07 Speaker 2 For the Scott. 00:30:17:09 - 00:30:22:08 Speaker 1 Thinking about Wimbledon. Yes. Thinking about any rivalries within that and competition. 00:30:22:09 - 00:30:50:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. It was always there was a closest to the big rivals and before they closed obviously at Wembley, Wimbledon. But yeah I mean there was always these local derbies because you get the traveling funds coming as well. So you had lots of funds coming to building and it gives the whole place a good sphere. And it was it was always very good. 00:30:50:09 - 00:30:57:12 Speaker 2 And the sport itself was boosted quite a bit by that actually. Yeah. 00:30:57:17 - 00:30:59:06 Speaker 1 Friendly vibe. 00:30:59:08 - 00:31:20:09 Speaker 2 I would say. So. I mean, you do because you're riding high a drizzle and, you know, get nerves and everything else you do get there, you know, little punch up here and there. But usually everybody's friends afterwards. No problems. 00:31:20:11 - 00:31:25:11 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about any big characters at Wimbledon? 00:31:25:13 - 00:32:14:05 Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, obviously before I wrote for The Road was the biggest one. He was Mr. Perfect. Really very good style, very neat, tidy. And everybody looked up to him. But go right back to my early days as I said what I was an apprentice at Glasgow in the motorcycle shop. I wrote to the tracks down south to try and get a ride, and Rider Green had given me this ride at Wimbledon and when I was there it was not a chore writing that date, and we found who was, what a champion he was writing and I was in the Wimbledon watch shop, just kept my boat ride in the Kilgore to see what I was 00:32:14:05 - 00:32:36:08 Speaker 2 doing, and I always remember that I've tried to get and get some more information, because I didn't know too much at all about the bikes and asked all I said, what clutch do we do you use on your your job? I said no to the Birmingham. They said, oh, I said, I don't know. I just leave it to the mechanics. 00:32:36:10 - 00:32:46:14 Speaker 2 So he was so good he did to work on his own bike and he was, you know, he was probably Mr. Perfect at it too. Yeah. 00:32:46:16 - 00:32:57:12 Speaker 1 Thank you. And also, can you tell us about a term that we've heard from a few riders, which is skullduggery. 00:32:57:14 - 00:33:00:17 Speaker 1 That as you will. 00:33:00:19 - 00:33:26:02 Speaker 2 Has been pretty, you know, it's been pretty fair how it really did big problems at all, you know with these teams are root for we wouldn't everybody road quite well there and God well together you know apart from running running over each other that was it was fine. So it wasn't really any particular skullduggery. 00:33:26:03 - 00:33:29:11 Speaker 1 You know. No dirty tricks or. 00:33:29:13 - 00:33:54:19 Speaker 2 Not I could think of, you know. Yeah. I mean, probably there would be a few here and there. And in those days you didn't get exclusive for touching the tapes. So people were rolling back and forward into the start starting tapes. I mean, there's a lot of gamesmanship to but overall it all week week smoothly. 00:33:54:21 - 00:33:58:22 Speaker 1 Thank you. And. 00:33:58:24 - 00:34:03:18 Speaker 1 Travel a lot around the world. You were doing this. How did this affect family life? 00:34:03:20 - 00:34:29:05 Speaker 2 In the beginning I wasn't worried about it when I was traveling, so there was no problem then eventually I did get married to either a German wife and we traveled a little bit together as well. In the beginning, I would do these trips on my my own and fell in love. 00:34:29:07 - 00:35:00:07 Speaker 2 To a couple of trips with me to Medicaid and one term industrial year. We were based in Sydney. Baby was racing in Perth, which was the other side of the country, and I had missed my flight bike to to Sydney and then phoned and she said, well, can't you just jump on a bus or train? But I didn't realize I was about a five day trip from Perth to Sydney with a. 00:35:00:09 - 00:35:13:03 Speaker 2 Yeah, but it wasn't. I mean, it wasn't speedway fun, but she helped a lot in the background, you know, and the finances and stuff so that it worked out quite well. That's nice. 00:35:13:03 - 00:35:23:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. So I'm going to get on to the race. So could you describe a race day at Wimbledon leading up to the start of the race? So what happens. 00:35:24:00 - 00:35:53:10 Speaker 2 Yeah. Well you unload your you arrive in the afternoon and unload your bike and get your bike and your two toolbox into the pit area and Wimbledon, the pits were underneath the grandstand. And that had its own problems because there wasn't a lot of space. So you had your bike and you were me up, and the other rider was about here beside you, and with it be under the grandstand. 00:35:53:15 - 00:36:19:03 Speaker 2 It was all enclosed and the echo of the other. The boat still silences. So the echo under the greatest stand was adorable. She had to have earmuffs and everything. And within a woman riders, they've all gone deaths and said because you had two lots of two teams of bikes all warming up at the same time, and also the fumes as well. 00:36:19:03 - 00:36:47:24 Speaker 2 So everybody was wearing masks, but the health and safety would fit and see what we're doing. But anyway, that was the beginning of it. You would have to warm the bike up, just check, make sure everything was okay, do the fuel and I'll be ready for your first race. And then you'd have the parade beforehand where each team would be introduced to the to the finals. 00:36:48:01 - 00:37:21:11 Speaker 2 And sometimes if there was a good crowd, they didn't. Just the fun to the right it, but we would have always had a good crowd and it was a lovely little. Such a shame that went because such a lovely stadium with the restaurant upstairs, Nicholas fronted girls and it was a real, a real treat to there. I did a tricky trait too, because it was smaller than most other trouts and the finish line was different from the start. 00:37:21:12 - 00:37:46:00 Speaker 2 Line is a bit further on, just to give the overall length of four laps to make it official for World Championship events. So sometimes our visiting writer didn't realize that the finish was a bit further than we had started. So you could coach for the very last corner. It's it was a good home track. I liked it here. 00:37:46:02 - 00:37:48:03 Speaker 2 Yes. Yeah. 00:37:48:05 - 00:37:52:14 Speaker 1 Did you have any kind of rituals or superstitions or anything before? 00:37:52:16 - 00:38:18:12 Speaker 2 No. Not particularly. No, no, just I don't think I had actually I try not to go to that side of things. I try to see with the tracks. You always try not to have a bogey track. He tried to treat every track the same, that you could go out there and race. Otherwise, psychologically you had to have the confidence to go out and do that. 00:38:18:13 - 00:38:19:03 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:38:19:06 - 00:38:22:10 Speaker 1 Okay. So you've taken us around. You've been on your. 00:38:22:12 - 00:38:24:05 Speaker 2 Lap of honor. Yeah, yeah. 00:38:24:07 - 00:38:27:10 Speaker 1 And then you go up to the tape. 00:38:27:12 - 00:38:52:07 Speaker 2 Yeah. The what they call the pushers. They would bring the bikes for bikes onto the track, and you would walk out from the pit stop the the ramp onto the track itself. And that was quite good because as you could, you could see this, the whole crowd and that gave you the whole thing and that was fear. And then you get pushed off into the start, I suppose. 00:38:52:08 - 00:39:19:24 Speaker 2 Always. You said rituals. I wouldn't push push me off. I would always give them a little. We've just said, I appreciate you just help because I don't after that around to the start and you had, you know, 60s just to do your best and it's very intense. Speedway. You know, you can't relax. You just got to get up and go. 00:39:20:01 - 00:39:26:02 Speaker 1 Can you tell me about that moment when the tape goes up and what you do and what it's like? 00:39:26:04 - 00:39:48:18 Speaker 2 You're concentrating on the tape or on the magnet at the side of the tape and trying to get to that first corner first, because it's so important. And quite often, if you don't make a good start, if you're on the other side, you get bolted in from the or the outside. So it's always very important. 00:39:48:20 - 00:39:50:12 Speaker 1 So a lot of adrenaline involved. 00:39:50:15 - 00:39:56:04 Speaker 2 Oh yes. Yeah. Yeah. But once you get going. You're fine. Yeah. 00:39:56:06 - 00:40:00:01 Speaker 1 And. 00:40:00:03 - 00:40:02:10 Speaker 1 Tactics going around. 00:40:02:11 - 00:40:03:02 Speaker 2 Yes. 00:40:03:02 - 00:40:09:14 Speaker 1 And maybe dark arts and dodgy technique basically. How do you get how do you win a race. 00:40:09:16 - 00:40:41:00 Speaker 2 If you're riding a team like Wimbledon, if you knew your teammate quite well and you'd ridden together before you could? Timurid, if the two of you got in front and you could hold the other two races back. But the idea was, did say Reuter would go slower into the corner to let that side where the road. So it meant that the two of you were stayed together the whole four laps, and that would stop the others from overtaking. 00:40:41:01 - 00:40:55:08 Speaker 2 So that was one of the things. But it's very difficult to do. You had a lot of confidence in your partner as well that you could ride so close without any problems. So there are things like that, but it worked well. 00:40:55:12 - 00:40:57:02 Speaker 1 Trust in teamwork. 00:40:57:04 - 00:41:20:12 Speaker 2 Yeah. Trusting the other rider to this is a thing. And so rider, you couldn't do that because there were a little bit of control at times and you had to. And also if the insider didn't understand properly, went into the corner too fast, he pushed his partner to the fence and you could lose the race completely that way. 00:41:20:12 - 00:41:26:21 Speaker 2 So you had to look for each other and try and work out. So yeah. 00:41:26:23 - 00:41:34:07 Speaker 1 Thank you. I'm going to come into this stadium itself. Yes. What made Wimbledon Speedway Stadium special? 00:41:34:09 - 00:42:01:13 Speaker 2 I think just looking at the grandstand under way around the track and it looked special. And what Roddy Green had even afterwards, it was always manicured grass and flower pots in the center green, and the whole place was very colorful. And the track staff dressed in the red yellow outfits with the wooden start at the front. Yeah they were. 00:42:01:15 - 00:42:22:10 Speaker 2 It was probably maybe the nicest stadium in the speedway at the time. You know, I know we've got like Alford here, which is a little bit similar with the glass fronted grandstand. So but it was better than any of the other tracks around. Yeah, yeah. 00:42:22:12 - 00:42:26:06 Speaker 1 Conjured up a picture or anything else about the stadium there. 00:42:26:08 - 00:42:57:07 Speaker 2 Well the midfield was what we're seeing. But the Pittsfield underneath the grandstand that the health and safety wouldn't put up with that now. And even with two teams of bikes worn me up together, such a noise and the baked rhino and methanol and Caslav. So the fumes would cut your throat. So it's definitely health and safety risk at that time. 00:42:57:09 - 00:42:58:23 Speaker 1 What was the crowd like at Wimbledon? 00:42:58:24 - 00:43:30:04 Speaker 2 The crowds were good, actually, not as big as early days and the 50s or early 60s, but usually pretty good. All the the home street, the grandstand with chocolate block full. And the good thing was you could mix with the spectators afterwards too. They would still be hanging around. So it helped a whole lot of the team and the club to, you know, to be like a family sport. 00:43:30:06 - 00:43:31:21 Speaker 1 How easy is a crowd? 00:43:31:24 - 00:44:03:20 Speaker 2 Oh yeah. Yeah, they'll always are actually. Yes, we know these horns and before the wooden rattles as well. And but if you have a woman these wooden rattles used to be used quite early on in speedway and football. And one of my friends in Glasgow, I shall send me a photograph of wooden. It's painted red white with Glasgow tigers painted on. 00:44:03:22 - 00:44:22:06 Speaker 2 And I thought this was just recently. I thought that was strange. I had what looked like, but I had painted was a kid. I just sent me a photograph of the other side of it that's got my name on it. And as I said, what? I had one years old for the past 100 years. I don't know where it's been. 00:44:22:07 - 00:44:30:09 Speaker 2 And it turned up in a second hand shop here. 00:44:30:11 - 00:44:40:18 Speaker 1 Yeah. So anything else you can tell us about any particular fans? Because it sounds like there was quite a bit of interaction between. 00:44:40:22 - 00:45:09:20 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, there was, there was one called Soldier Boy. He was a Leicester fan under the number one rules and fun. And every track you went to the Wolves and was riding, he would be their children cheering one. And if you beat Ray he was really abusive towards you. But he was another bit of a character really. And yeah. 00:45:09:22 - 00:45:21:03 Speaker 2 The funds tended to follow the team and follow different riders and they're always pretty fair. And what they were doing, you didn't get too many boos. 00:45:21:05 - 00:45:33:15 Speaker 1 And I imagine this is quite a glamorous thing going on on bicycles. Did you get a lot of attention from from ladies? Should I ask? 00:45:33:17 - 00:45:50:07 Speaker 2 Sometimes. But me with a writer with glasses and at the tables of ginger here I looked. Didn't look like a speed related at all. So. Nobody bothered with me, so it wasn't too bad. 00:45:50:09 - 00:45:52:01 Speaker 1 You didn't have that problem too much. 00:45:52:05 - 00:45:56:06 Speaker 2 Not too much, no. 00:45:56:08 - 00:46:02:01 Speaker 1 Yeah. So what was it like being part of the overall Wimbledon community? The stadium? 00:46:02:03 - 00:46:27:19 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's very good if you if you're riding well I mean I used to do things like, well particularly in Australia with a kilt, top of the leather just for the parade, which was fine as good for the code it got going. But if you did that then you went out and didn't race very well. You felt such a added. 00:46:27:21 - 00:46:49:06 Speaker 2 I did all that. So you know, there's that pressure. You had to do well all the time. And yeah, it's just little things like that just to try and brighten up the meeting a little bit and make it a little bit different. Showmanship I suppose that's what you could call it. Yeah, yeah. But funnily enough I thought I was doing that. 00:46:49:06 - 00:46:58:12 Speaker 2 I was still a very shy person, but you know, that that always, that always helped. You know, I've got a bit of reaction. 00:46:58:12 - 00:47:03:08 Speaker 1 So can you remember any other things? Kilts, anything else. 00:47:03:11 - 00:47:26:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. Usually tartan hot as well. And I hear that news days was very long and ginger and some years ago they started marketing these tartan hearts with a ginger wig. And I thought I should have got commissioned for that because that was my hair. 00:47:26:24 - 00:47:48:06 Speaker 2 The other time with the kilt in Australia is the parade. Before the start of the meeting, I did approached to start on the front wheel, come up in the air, but all the different will come up as well over my eyes and I run into the safety fence. So that was a partizan too. 00:47:48:08 - 00:47:54:22 Speaker 1 Can you tell us about if you had to pick one the best day? It will. 00:47:54:24 - 00:48:23:22 Speaker 2 My best day. They're all pretty good. I wasn't I don't think there's any particular one in there. Could could pinpoint just as a matter of getting there and doing your best. And as I said before, the Scotland versus Wimbledon was a special event to and that that always stuck in people's memory as well. So that was that was a good one. 00:48:23:24 - 00:48:28:12 Speaker 1 And you might not have won. But what about your worst day? 00:48:28:14 - 00:49:00:04 Speaker 2 A few of them was probably the one my back Wimbledon. And as I said, having to lie in the bed all that time here in the area, please fly over. They were going to where I wanted to be. But what those things that you had to mentally, you had to adjust your thinking to think, well, I've got to lie here for this length of time and then it would be okay. 00:49:00:06 - 00:49:26:00 Speaker 2 And eventually I must have started the following season. But I did come back, sort of, I think about me or June back again. But then a few weeks later, I broke my leg again and I get taken straight back to the Royal Orthopedic. It's Dunmore. I know all the woods at the same hospital. I didn't see Ward Ward one. 00:49:26:01 - 00:49:45:10 Speaker 2 I didn't seem bad, you know, and that was a real sport. I thought I'd gone through all this. I'd got out of it. Don't back the same, please. So that was. That was a tough one, you know, mentally rather than it wasn't too painful, but mentally it was tough. 00:49:45:12 - 00:49:50:20 Speaker 1 I haven't asked you why you stopped racing. And when you stop racing. Why? 00:49:50:22 - 00:50:15:18 Speaker 2 Yeah. Towards the end I, I was getting I knew I was getting slaughtered anyway and I'd like to keep going. But I had to try and do something for the future. So would have been the America Scott Goggles had sponsored me with. Goggles, you see. And towards the end of my career, I asked them if I had an importer for this country and they didn't. 00:50:15:19 - 00:50:36:20 Speaker 2 So I became the distributor for the scope products in the UK, and from that it built up into other motorcycle products, plastics, Premier helmets, things like that. So that to cover what I did, Speedway, I had this to fall back on. 00:50:36:22 - 00:50:39:10 Speaker 1 In the environs of speedway and motor racing. 00:50:39:11 - 00:51:11:01 Speaker 2 Yeah Speedway and a lot was motocross as well, but still involved in two two wheels which and I've not involved with the goggles side anymore, but I still have the contact. So I sponsored a couple of riders now with the Scott goggles, Judy Scott and Jason Edwards. And prior to that we'd talk. Riders has Nilsen and Niki Pedersen, although everybody wore the same goggles. 00:51:11:03 - 00:51:17:22 Speaker 1 So moving on to the final questions, how did the closure of the stadium affect you? 00:51:17:24 - 00:51:43:17 Speaker 2 Yeah, I was very disappointed actually, because at the time I had I don't think about four seasons of Woodward and that had gone to California for that year. I think when I came back, Wimbledon had closed to. It's quite disappointed that such an iconic stadium would would lost to Speedway. You know, I had hoped at the time it reopened again. 00:51:43:17 - 00:51:47:12 Speaker 2 But obviously what is the clause that's that's it really. 00:51:47:15 - 00:51:50:08 Speaker 1 You remember what year that was. 00:51:50:10 - 00:52:01:03 Speaker 2 Not 6070 would we must be would 1970 or at least I'm not too sure. Yeah yeah, yeah. 00:52:01:08 - 00:52:03:14 Speaker 1 And looking. 00:52:03:14 - 00:52:07:03 Speaker 2 Back 76. Sorry. Okay. Yeah. 00:52:07:05 - 00:52:14:04 Speaker 1 Looking back, what does your life as a speedway rider me to you. This. 00:52:14:06 - 00:52:41:24 Speaker 2 A lot of it was hard work, a lot of traveling, a lot of driving. You know, living in Scotland, you saw so many miles to cover. And fortunately, there wasn't so much traffic. So I could work out within about half an hour how long it would be from Glasgow to Wembley and different tracks. But no, you could get stuck anywhere on the way and it was. 00:52:42:00 - 00:53:14:14 Speaker 2 A lot of the work went on off the track, you know, in the, in the workshop, just trying to give it the ready, getting correct tires. At that time you could cut the tires with a very sharp hacksaw. So cutting them collect pattern for each track. That was important as well. And with you altered, as I said earlier, that you buy a Java street out the box in recent, but usually you would change the handlebars, the seat, the fuel. 00:53:14:16 - 00:53:32:11 Speaker 2 You'd do different things to suit your your own style. So you had your own shape of handlebars and your own height of seat as well. So there's quite a lot of little technicalities went into it. But overall it's still what took it. 00:53:32:13 - 00:53:41:00 Speaker 1 Thank you. An interesting life in Speedway. Anything that you wanted to tell us that we didn't ask you about? 00:53:41:02 - 00:53:47:22 Speaker 2 Good question. You've covered quite a lot, actually. Both. You know, most of the figures. 00:53:47:24 - 00:53:49:07 Speaker 1 Yeah. A quick one that they asked. 00:53:49:13 - 00:53:50:11 Speaker 2 Yeah. Certainly. Yeah. 00:53:50:12 - 00:53:55:07 Speaker 1 Did you tell them about groupies? Well, I asked that question. You did was I asked. 00:53:55:13 - 00:54:23:07 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Well, what happened was that each track like in the early days, bush riders, he said one bike each and the club would have a track spear. So it would be a bike that anybody could use. If your boat broke down, could use that. So some of the girls that followed the teams, they were called track spares for overseas. 00:54:23:09 - 00:54:31:04 Speaker 2 Yeah. So but I stayed away from that. Yeah.